EDL

Yeah, people on this board have had issues with both UAF and radical Islam before Arthur came in to "convince" them.
I personally think I'll stay in Israel, since I can't afford to fly all the way to the UK in order to "fight fascism" in the streets. From my point of view, it seems a waste to me to mobilize so profusely against a fringe activist group when the government is the one actually implementing racist measures, but maybe it's just because I'm used to Israel, where the government constantly uses right-wing radicals as foils to exonerate itself. Possibly things are different in the UK, I wouldn't know.

First they came for.... You are being totally over the top here. The EDL represent a fringe initiative to return to the streets using high profile 'confrontational' tactics, whilst I think they need to be rendered completely ineffective, your approach appears to have little perspective and whilst physically engaging with EDL might make you feel you are at the 'coal face' of the class war, you ain't. So NO I won't be at Stoke, but good luck with your efforts.

putting aside the obvious point that it's a fuckwitted approach, it's a laughable notion that the UK anarchist 'movement' could pose anything even resembling a physical/street threat to the 'EDL'

Yeah, some Asian and black kids will happily give them a kicking though.

Being over the top am I? Shall we wait until the EDL can put 5,000 on the street? Or 10,000? Shall we leave it until they extend their hate list from 'radical Islam' to 'all Muslims'? Or 'all Asians'? Or 'all who support Muslims'?

The time to act is now - not later.

The pitiful comments about the UK anarchist movement not being capable of posing a threat to the EDL must make the EDL rejoice as much as they make me despair of the writer. How do you know what threat we pose until we try? Is there no value in building a tradition of street action in the modern British anarchist movement? Has it ever been right to oppose any fascist movement in Britain, from Mosley onwards? Were they right at Cable St? Were they right at Lewisham? Were AFA right? If the answer to any of those is yes, then when did it stop being right to do so?

There are 100 other organisational and propagandist things for anarchists to be doing as well as anti-fascism, (and any deficiencies we have as a 'movement' are entirely due to these things not being done - and I'll list them for you on another thread if you like), but to leave anti-fascism to others is wrong on just about every level.

Aside from it being absolutely correct for anarchists to oppose all manifestations of fascism, as an act of self-defence as much as anything else, how do you think we're going to build a revolutionary movement in this country without getting numbers together, without building collective action and a sense of solidarity, without getting out on the streets and standing up for ourselves? Or doesn't revolution play any part in your brand of anarchism? Don't we want the anarchist movement to be visible, to be vibrant and to take a stand against movements which are utterly opposed to everything we stand for and which, even if we ignore them, pose a threat to everything we are trying to do? Anti-fascism and the growth of the anarchist movement are inextricably linked.

tbh the anarchist scene in britain is few in numbers. But good luck to you.

I haven't had time to read this thread in full but I want to point out one thing - somebody earlier asked the EDL guy why they only protest about Muslim extremists.

The similar arguement could be thrown at anarchists and leftists in general - why do they only protest against BNP extremists?

I have yet to see one 'leftie' stand up and physically protest at any meeting of these Islamic nutters - why is this?

Perhaps if anarchists had gotten their act together and fought these Religious Fascists on the streets like they do with Nazi Fascists then some of the working classes drifting towards the EDL might have instead been persuaded to the Anarchist cause - ever thought of that?

Oh come on Leigh. You make it sound like antifascist work is the only stuff anarchists do. Many of us would see a lot of antifascist activity as a bit of a distraction, only important when it comes to protection of sections of our class or defence of our own activity. The threat from Islamists is qualitively different to that from the BNP/NF/BPP etc. One is from cells unknown to even other people in the same milieu, the other is from besuited dickheads standing for the local council or boneheads seeking to violently control the streets.

How exactly would you see anarchist activity taking place against 'Islamic nutters', especially without it coming across as an attack on muslim people in general? Let's face it, the last time 'anarchists' took on radical islam it involved burning a racist effigy in a Hackney park.

The uaf give the edl more publicity, they're both as bad as each other.

UAF - harbours radical islamists and racist youth.
EDL - harbours nationalists and racist english ppl.

All they do is make the problem fucking worse!

What's wrong in entering dialogue with a member of the working class who has differing views to yours? How do you intend persuading 'average Joe's' to the anarchist cause without discussing their world views and offering counter views?

I disagree with your premise that Islamic Fundamentalists operate in unknown cells within the Muslim community. For example Islam4UK are very open about their extremist views.

When people are informed by the press that roughly 40% of British Muslims would prefer their communities to be governed by Sharia law (or religious fascism) is it any wonder that the EDL attract supporters to their cause?

I would propose confronting bigot organisations like Islam4UK face to face on the streets - just as you would confront the BNP.

I was referring to the genuine threat from Islamists - bombings and the like. Islam4UK are no threat whatsoever, being just a bunch of publicity seeking dicks.

Do you really believe that there is any possibility of sharia law replacing legislative law? Really? And this is outside of considering the merits of one set of laws defined by a ruling class against another set of laws defined by a ruling class, or indeed the basis of the statistic you quote.

I'd also be interested to know how you'd handle this supposed 40% - deportation?

And how would you confront Islam4UK on the streets without coming across as being against all muslims? After all, this is what the EDL say they are doing. And what good would it do?

easy - bankrolled by NI Protestant loyalist Rev. James Dowson

that's not your personal opinion - that's taken from SIOE propaganda

Dunno which one of you said this, but it needed saying.

Anyone watch Young British and Angry about the E-E-EDL on the BBC?

I thought it was semi-good gave some perspective on what they are and why. But I haven't personally been up, close and personal with the E-E-EDL (or involved in Anti-Fascism) so maybe there is more/different to be said?

Thoughts and opinions???

I thought it was pretty good, i think it gave a good overview of the EDL from my understanding of them, i think its also highlights some of the failings of the left in general and on this particular issue. Although I think it fell short on some points, particularly why they are targeting areas with no link to islamic extreemism, what exactly do they hope to achieve by this and why they are taking this approach instead of targeting the individuals proposing sharia and voicing suport for the 7/7 bombers ect, ie the fool that is still peddeling his nonsense around Luton unopposed.

Well it did show that their claims to oppose racism are pretty spurious by demonstrating that racist chants go unchallenged and that some of their head honchos have BNP links.

Yeah, but it did end with the indication that perhaps there is some legitimacy in the concept of the english defence league and their tactics. (well thats the way i understood it)

I think it showed that the inner circle of the EDL are not racist to all creeds and races. But they are particularly racist to muslims whether fundamentalist or not. Especially the Sikh guy Amit Singh.

Just saw the documentary. Find it depressing. Nationalism is so deeply embedded in British culture it's shocking. The wars are feeding it, would have hoped it'd turn people away.

Even worse is that many of the people have legitimate concerns but are outside the reach of decent politics unless something changes and good ideas get some kind of traction.

The UAF stuff is just wrong. Cycled past Parliament just before the London EDL march unaware of the upcoming events. Without in *any* way condoning the EDL all the UAF banners focusing on Nazis and fascists and whatnot are just counterproductive as if being nationalist and islamofobic is no longer a problem.

Funny though on my way back I asked a cop (yes I spoke to a cop) if the march was over. He decided to mark my words and said looking suspiciously at me