Founding Congress of the new international anarcho-syndicalist and revolutionary syndicalist.

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Rob Ray's picture
Rob Ray
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May 14 2018 10:19

Tbh akai Yepa's right, the split has happened, they're nowt to do with the IWA any more and having the IWA's secretary making snide comments about the new grouping comes across as undignified and more than a bit bitter ex.

edit: Also who's downvoting me for pointing out the CNT-CIT thing? C'mon it's mildly amusing tongue

MT
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May 14 2018 11:43
Rob Ray wrote:
having the IWA's secretary making snide comments about the new grouping comes across as undignified and more than a bit bitter ex.

which comments do you mean and why do you think they are snide (especially, in the context of all the bullshit comments the hateful members of CNT-CIT and IWW wrote here)? This debate is far from nice but it is interesting to see that the attacks can be made against akai but when she gives facts, she is expected to rather refrain from commenting. Also, we see that the IWW NA has already failed in keeping in line with their mandate and I wonder what is the case of WAS and ARS, since at least WAS had a clear mandate to just observe. I can understand that many people don't care about such facts, but is it such a problem to accept that it matters to some and they think it actually is imporant and should be exposed?

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Rob Ray
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May 14 2018 11:58

Oh come on MT half her comments are just straightforward sniping. And I don't give a crap about what the CNT people are saying (other than the comments I've already made repeatedly about how everyone should stop being childish), they're neither in my international nor representatives of anything.

doug
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May 14 2018 12:17

Valid, respectful criticism of an organisation is fair enough. But many of the comments in this and related threads are just trolling (from the same crowd). Admins should warn and then delete constant sectarian comments - whether it's against the unions in the new international or the IWA.

Ragnar
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May 14 2018 12:21

Oh! Hateful members of spanish CNT. I gonna be pride of that. I love it. You make us so important.

MT I repet just for you:

Quote:
Let's see, all unions have to endorse, or make referendum or the meeting they need to ratify or not the outcome of the congress.

And even then, it can be taken for granted, except rare, as the attendees comment and the work is almost two year of previous work ... it is easy to see that those will be the members of ICL.

so... IWW NARA not failed in their mandate.

I think you should rethink that about direct democracy, you're not understanding it very well, I suggest.

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Juan Conatz
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May 14 2018 12:49

Seems a bit premature to be making public accusations that people violated their mandate when all the information that seems available is brief, Google Translated articles.

akai
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May 14 2018 13:19

Yes perhaps somebody will kick me off here for pointing out that what was claimed in the text against their organization's mandate, that would be pretty much in line with the type of behaviour that has been all too problematic in some organizations.

As for MT's questions, WAS did not attend but sent a greeting. They wrote and I will forward. As for ARS, people tried to ask and it seems like nobody kniws. You can ask yourselves but they haven't joined. But it's best to ask about such things directly to avoid rumors.

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Steven.
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May 14 2018 14:00

For the people in the old IWA, not sure if you care what I think, but as someone who sympathised more with your perspective in the split than the other side, unfortunately the way you are seeming to come across in subsequent discussions is showing you in a very negative light.

The split has happened, you can't change that. It would seem that the best thing for you to do is move on and focus on your organising work and concrete struggles you are involved in, not getting involved in silly spats with organisations you are now unconnected with.

akai
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May 14 2018 14:41

Deleted comment.

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Rob Ray
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May 14 2018 14:28

Steven didn't actually mention you akai, and I did so only in the context that you're the secretary of the IWA. I'm calling everyone involved in this argument childish regardless of gender, the only difference with you is that you are the formal representative of the international I'm affiliated to.

Ragnar
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May 14 2018 14:38

Also, Akai. of the hatefuls members of the CNT we don´t care if you are a woman or not. As you can see in all the threads, we answer all of them in the same way. What you have never wanted to see in our criticism of your position in social networks is the same as your colleagues in the IWA said, you can´t dissociate your personal comments from those of being the general officer of the IWA, because you have an organizational responsibility .

So it's not Akai, woman, who answers here. It´s the general secretary of the IWA who answer here.

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Flava O Flav
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May 14 2018 15:22
malatesta1932 wrote:
If only we could merge the IWA (1922), the new 2018 one, and all the other revolutionary syndicalist and anarcho-syndicalist unions. This would be the best idea as far as I know. And then begin to further improve relations with the IFA. Then we would have a much stronger anarchist movement. Show me why I'm wrong, but I doubt many of you will disagree.

Merging with the 1922 IWA sounds great but I don't think time travel is really a goer.

MT
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May 14 2018 16:49
akai wrote:
As for MT's questions, WAS did not attend but sent a greeting. They wrote and I will forward. As for ARS, people tried to ask and it seems like nobody kniws. You can ask yourselves but they haven't joined. But it's best to ask about such things directly to avoid rumors.

I know what about WAS position since we talked about it with them. I was pointing out at how it was "sold" here to uninformed readers:

Quote:
Also is interesting the delegates of WAS and ARS that express interest about the new international.

Which sounds like if they were about to join. Maybe this is just a translation issue, but at least to me it sounded misleading. Still, I think that making such a comment shouldn't be considered inappropriate. If anything, it is rather inappropriate to use IWA Friends in kind of pissing contest. And interestingly, no-one cares about the authors of this comment and prefers to criticise those who point at the way the CNT-CIT present information about the congress and other groups.

syndicalist
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May 14 2018 17:05

Pardon my ignorance, who is WAS and ARS?

Ragnar
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May 14 2018 17:09

Well I'm not in the international that has problems with inviting, working or collaborating with other unions that are not in my international. I imagine that it will continue to be considered the WAS or ARS as a "parallel activity" within the IWA. That is why it is reviewed as something to be taken into account.
The truth is that what interests me the most is the work that will be developed from now on within the international CIT / ICL.

Ragnar
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May 14 2018 17:11

syndicalist
WAS and ARS are iniciatives anarcho-syndicalist in Austria and Bulgaria.

syndicalist
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May 14 2018 17:13
Ragnar wrote:
syndicalist
WAS and ARS are iniciatives anarcho-syndicalist in Austria and Bulgaria.

I figured it out when someone wrote "parallel", then looked at IWA site.
Thank you anyway.

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klas batalo
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May 14 2018 17:50

The IWW delegates have stated in an attempt at clarification that despite the CNT declaration on their website that says all these unions founded the CIT / ICL all they agreed to was the statutes, and are not a founding union (CNT, USI, FAU, FORA are supposedly the only CIT unions at this time), that this will indeed go to referendum.

Apologies if I was a bit anarcho-lawful neutral but certain folks have pushing this as a shot gun wedding. Ultimately I trust there will be robust IWW debate and deliberation.

akai
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May 14 2018 18:20

A couple of things. There is no problem if WAS wanted to observe anything. They are honest, told about it and said why. Association or not with us is free. There is a big difference if somebody wants to observe things and even cooperate or if they cross some boundary where they want to refound things without the agreement of others. If people do something new, that is their choice. If, by contrast, some had acted straightforward like that instead of like they did, there would be fewer problems in the world.

In any case, the press releases, CNT web sites, etc.,say something different. But it's not the same time. In Barakaldo there were also incorrect statements.

Hope that people work things out. As I see now, some people in Spain are also surprised they were volunteered to do the Secretariat, while some people say it just "needs to be ratified". But everybody should be working to instruct delegates not to oblige the organizations to things before the membership has voted.

That's just a general comment.

melenas
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May 14 2018 18:46

IWW will take their agreements, as will do the the rest of the unions that took part in the congress. Of course, all respect to the process of each union and their times.

The truth is that the proposals of IWW were important in the congress.

In my point of view, if you take active part in something like a congress making proposals and voting you are a founding union. But as I said, each union will see the result and take its agreements.

About WAS and ARS, I was expecting this reaction. Basically because is how works some people in IWA. The internal control that make some sections to others is not sane.

Ragnar
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May 14 2018 18:51

Klas batalo How I said before:

Quote:
Let's see, all unions have to endorse, or make referendum or the meeting they need to ratify or not the outcome of the congress.

And even then, it can be taken for granted, except rare, as the attendees comment and the work is almost two year of previous work ... it is easy to see that those will be the members of ICL.

It´s nothing rare in what´s going on.

Ragnar
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May 14 2018 18:54
akai wrote:
A couple of things. There is no problem if WAS wanted to observe anything. They are honest, told about it and said why. Association or not with us is free. There is a big difference if somebody wants to observe things and even cooperate or if they cross some boundary where they want to refound things without the agreement of others. If people do something new, that is their choice. If, by contrast, some had acted straightforward like that instead of like they did, there would be fewer problems in the world.

You could have already done so with the FAU. Now it is understandable and not before? What a curious way to act as the secretariat of the IWA.

syndicalist
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May 14 2018 18:57
melenas wrote:
The truth is that the proposals of IWW were important in the congress.

I'm curious what this means in a practical, formative sense.

MT
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May 14 2018 19:10
melenas wrote:
About WAS and ARS, I was expecting this reaction.

Could you be precise about what were you expecting? It is not clear.

melenas
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May 14 2018 19:10
syndicalist wrote:
melenas wrote:
The truth is that the proposals of IWW were important in the congress.

I'm curious what this means in a practical, formative sense.

I wasn´t in Parma, but comrades told me is that for example the agreement about how much will pay each section is base on IWW proposal. They told me other things but with out being there is very easy to write things that are not right.
In one month I will visit some delegates I know so I will have more direct information a part from the agreements.

syndicalist
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May 14 2018 19:22

I thank you.

melenas
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May 14 2018 20:06
MT wrote:
melenas wrote:
About WAS and ARS, I was expecting this reaction.

Could you be precise about what were you expecting? It is not clear.

The reaction of Akai, she was aggressive and became more aggressive.

akai
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May 14 2018 20:39

Agressive? Hehe. No, I am having a good laugh really.

Like I never stigmatized people for people small or anything, only you. But you are very happy that the smallest Friends wrote a letter and think somebody will have a fit about it. Not that I am criticizing them, but there's some irony in it.

melenas
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May 14 2018 21:33
akai wrote:
Agressive? Hehe. No, I am having a good laugh really.

Like I never stigmatized people for people small or anything, only you. But you are very happy that the smallest Friends wrote a letter and think somebody will have a fit about it. Not that I am criticizing them, but there's some irony in it.

Please, have fun.

MT
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May 14 2018 21:59
melenas wrote:
MT wrote:
melenas wrote:
About WAS and ARS, I was expecting this reaction.

Could you be precise about what were you expecting? It is not clear.

The reaction of Akai, she was aggressive and became more aggressive.

Could you please quote the aggressive reaction? I cannot see it.

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