French youth and student revolt - Part II

I'll comment here on frenchyy's thoughts - but feel free to move the post if its better suited there.

Frenchyy raises some important points but I think misses the big picture. France has to have some of the most complicated labour legislation on the face of the planet - there are numerous different employment contracts and all of them are watered down versions of a CDI. It is held as truism that French industry is loathe to employ people on CDI, and this is as frenchyy points out that both the employee and the employer pay 23% of the monthly wage to the government to cover the social charges. Income tax is separate and levied on the employee once a year. That's the basic direct tax set-up, nevermind the indirect taxes. There is a catch-22 there, the social charges pay for the social-security system - dropping those charges from the employers leads to a shortfall in governement revenue that threats the whole social-security system. We could also go into how much the government just wastes every year - but that is another revolution .

Its no secret that France has the competitve edge of a feather pillow and the big French corporates have been outsourcing as fast as they can. And amking money hand-over-fist. In the same manner as the US and the UK, the only stop gap jobs that can be created are in service sector and that is why they need the CNE and CPE because McJob employers don't need long-term employees.

Where frenchyy is off the mark is that it is not just students who should be demonstrating, it is everyone because the CNE and the CPE are about destroying job security for all. If the govt holds its course and gets the CPE through, the next step is a CNE for larger enterprises.

The fundamental problem is that of globalisation and neo-liberalism. Modern capitalism happily eats its young in the name of increased profits and until we stop globalisation we are pissng in the wind. The anti-CPE movement is one battle in a larger war of the people against the globocapitalists. More at http://jayzerz.blogspot.com/2006/03/no-to-cpe-and-cne.html.

Hermit in paris

There exists a culture of violence, but not a "gang culture". It's a sort a culture of total disrespect, of force, of agressiveness, a mix of machism/virilism/ and honor. They don't streetfight for a gang, nor an organisation, just for them and their friends.

In France you are right the police is violent in the banlieue, agressive , responsible of a climate of violence, of exasperation ... but don't exaggerate, not all days, not all weeks nor all months kids were killed by the police ! It's not the civil war ! And the violence of the police can't justify the violences of kids against another kids.

Last Thursday it's very special because, there were hundreds of teenagers who come to the demonstration principally to rob and to fight against another teenagers. And in the same time there were thousands of teenagers from the same suburbs who come to demonstrate the Cpe, and generally not violently (or the violence is directed against the police ).

But there also students who lived in the suburbs ! The Universities of St-Denis, Villetaneuse, Créteil , etc are not universities of bourgeois.

L'agité

About this link . Last week a groups of 50-100 of fascists had attacked , 2 times, the demonstrators near La Sorbonne. In the second attack there had fascists who were arrested by police. The fascists are pro-cpe.

The governement try to amalgamate far-right/hooligan/farleft/anarchists in the violence in the demonstrations .

Anarchists are actually name by Sarkozy to be responsible of riots.

The problem with the french students is in fact their will to demonstrate. I'm not saying that it should be taken away from them, just that maybe they should use it a little less often. Let's put things into perspective here:

*yes cpe means that the contract can be terminated anytime within the first two years,but employers will be more prone to employ young workers rather than old which means that these youngsters will aquire valuable experience rather than not get a job at all.

*if the contract is held for at least 4 months, the worker shall be versed benefits(490€) for a further 2 months should the contract be terminated, thus giving the youngster plenty of time to find a new job whilst still being paid.

*the young one shall also receive the advantage under a scheme called locapass meaning that it is easier to get a place to live.

*25%+ of under 25 year olds in france find themselves without a job, something must be done

*cpe is a CDI!!!

*lastly, if a person is under 25, that does not mean that he shall be automatically put under cpe, he can ask for a diff contract should he be well qualified

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but surely the situation is getting to a stage that the work market situation is explosive to say the least. I understand the contract has flaws but the minimum IS better than nothing!

It's the UNI , a union a rights students. There are "infiltrated" by the far-right. There are pro-cpe, pro grovenement.

And the FAGE, but i don't know this organisation. There are anti-cpe.

It's the 2 only students organisation which accepted to meet Villepin. The others unions students opposed to the Cpe refused to meet the minister (and it's very good !)

you are all communists!!! The CPE is great because if you are a boss you can ;lay down all the girls or fire them!!!... Great stuff!!

The mega capitalist!!

There is actually a question as to whether the CNE and CPE conform to internationally accepted Standards and Practices. From the ILO website:

"The termination of an employment relationship is likely to be a traumatic experience for a worker and the loss of income has a direct impact on her or his family's well-being. As more countries seek employment flexibility and globalization destabilizes traditional employment patterns, more workers are likely to face involuntary termination of employment at some point in their professional lifetime. At the same time, the flexibility to reduce staff and to dismiss unsatisfactory workers is a necessary measure for employers to keep enterprises productive. ILO standards on termination of employment seek to find a balance between maintaining the employer's right to dismiss workers for valid reasons and ensuring that such dismissals are fair and are used as a last resort, and that they do not have a disproportionate negative impact on the worker."

Further to that, the Convention concerning Termination of Employment at the Initiative of the Employer (Note: Date of coming into force: 23:11:1985.) states under Article 4:

"DIVISION A. JUSTIFICATION FOR TERMINATION

Article 4

The employment of a worker shall not be terminated unless there is a valid reason for such termination connected with the capacity or conduct of the worker or based on the operational requirements of the undertaking, establishment or service."

As far as I understand the regulations of both the CNE and CPE is that they are in contravention of what is an internationally accepted minimum if we are talking about what is minimum or not. I agree that France has to create jobs, but I disagree that it is necessary to destroy basic workers rights in the process.

http://jayzerz.blogspot.com/

i was just kidding with that last one obviously

you have a valid point when you say that the cpe infracts basic worker rights.

i am not personnally for it. it causes a great deal of worry for those looking for a job

however, demonstrating is not the answer

if youre wife told you she was leaving you, would you burn your car down?

no and im sure that you would be alot more hurt than if your boss told you you had to work under a cpe. So why do these french riot? Because it is in their culture and that , my friends, has only come in because the french have such laws that are balanced towards the public

the french are never satisfied

they will always want to have more. they will never accept to leave it at that so leave themto it

dont install cpe

give them what they want

come june the country will be in misery, recession, catastrophic cconsequences on the econmy growth and finance aspect of france

not because they didnt want cpe

because of some other ridiculous idea that incites the whole country to burn themselves and the rest of the people

RIOTS ARE THE WAY FORWARD

your arguments are pretty poor.

and i tink a wife is a bit different from your boss in many, many ways...i hope.

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=AP&Date=20060323&ID=5590596

Gas workers out on strike last Thursday over a merger - some were marching on the demos as well.

OK, last post to frenchyy -

You are quite right; if my wife leaves me I won't burn out my car - that would just be stupid. I'd burn out her car, of course. But that's a personal issue.

I tell you what though, I'll be out on the streets demonstrating on the 28th because it is an issue that affects me directly and you indirectly. I won't be rolling over cars and setting them alight. Unless the cops cause such a provocation as to warrant that response. Then so be it.

I've been demostrating since I was 15 and I'm not going stop now, because I know how one demonstration can make things change. I've had teargas, police charges, and rubber bullets fired at me. I've been arrested for "attending an illegal gathering". But I haven't rioted. Yet.

I will be demonstrating against a law that is immoral, inconsiderate and disrespectful of human beings. That's what demonstrating is about mate. Rioting is another issue enitirely.

If I had a wife, and she left me, and I thought the government was directly responsible and that burning my car would help then I'd burn my car.

The CPE is not a personal attack on one person, it is an attack on rights.

With youth unemployment so high the over-26s will soopn be forced to accept changed conditions in order to find work.

The French model is flawed. But giving up rights is not the answer

I am glad that people are fighting to defend their rights, I think we are all doomed to lose. They have the edge on us.

But we can go down fighting.

There's a pretty good article on the movement in France by the commie formerly known as BM Combustion at his website:

http://www.endangeredphoenix.com/

Click on What's New and its at the top of the list.

Pete

direct link: http://www.endangeredphoenix.com/FRANCE%20MAR%2006%20OpenOffice.org%201.1.html

- good article -

I'd rather hear news than abstract discussion, but I just want to make a point about the banlieu, on which much of the discussion seems to be focussed.

I'm presuming that the equivalent social stratum in Britain is what people refer to as "neds" "chavs" etc. I grew up as part of this class (I'm 25 now) and believe I can see the actions that have been described, to an extent, within a view of the world I used to hold. Basically, without a narrative (gained from reading books, and generally absorbing 'culture') subsuming events and actions within a larger historical frame, they are just chances for a bit of excitement etc. One sees things just from the point of view of one's own life, one's own day, even. One should also be aware that violence doesn't appear, in this world-view, in at all the same light as it does to people whose everyday existence is 'quieter'. 'Violence' (scare-quotes, since, as said, it does not mean the same) is just another form of fun.

This, and more besides, is probably old news to most of the people on this forum.

But I wonder what people think about the implications for strategy. For some points are worth noting.

First, there's a certain pattern developing. During the G8 protests last year, on one of the days of 'disrupting action', a large group of kids from the outlying estates in Edinburgh joined the anarchists who were protesting, and fights with the police broke out. This itself was a repetition of things seen earlier, so what's happening in France is a continuation of a trend.

Second, it is frequently only with the appearance of this strata that action that is not merely symbolical begins to happen - i.e. confrontation with the police. The actual, practical consequences of such action is not the issue; the point is that it is a big leap from action which merely symbolizes an abstract critique of society, to action that has personal consequences.

Third, Marx's first name for the proletariat was the class that has nothing to loose but its chains. Yet this is no longer true of any class except, precisely, the banlieu/"chavs" etc.

We can use the events in France for lessons, and I think the situation with the banlieu is one of the more important. Should not the energy, and total-society-rejection of the banlieu/"chavs" etc be harnessed?

I'd disagree with that... I suppose mainly because of the very high proportion of ethnic minorities and immigrants in the areas which are being talked about.

As a more general point there are always people who want to fight the cops if they get a chance, but this is periphal to the real activity of transforming all our day-to-day relationships and building real grassroots organisation which can eventually take over the running of society.

fuck me by the way, masssive demonstrations, really wasn't expecting this,

most so far have been nearly double the size of their respective march 18th ones, which were up to 1.5 million, i think we're looking at union figures of 2 million+

3 milion, the CGT says :) good luck and congrats to all participating in this right now, hope some find the time, after doing more urgent tasks directly related to the protests, to offer to us, eager voayers, some first-hand info of how it is progressing.

This is so massive, according to these numbers, I suppose there would not need any more for a revolution. Too bad ppl arent interested yet, but no point in rushing it...

looks like rioting then!

There is live footage on Sky news now, the riot police with lots of water cannons slowly pushing people back, it dosen't seem like a massive riot situation, but it looks interesting. The French commentator is saying the trouble makers are blacks and anarchists out to cause trouble...

After the riots people go home I think we really need to look at the long term plans as John mention,

I am doing what I can at work and trying to unionises poeple (funny I managed to unionise somebody and I myself still trying to get Unionised!) and sort poeple pay etc. It's going to take time, I did read somewhere that a union "amicus?" are trying to get it's member to rejoin the Labour Party in an effort to get the party back on track. This is the only realistic track that people can do for the short term but sadly the labour party will alway have a ting of the Neo-liberal element to the agenda.

Just to clear up this image in my head, I am sure it has been gone over before. Who are the banlieu?

http://libcom.org/blog/glossary-of-the-unrest/

Family member pissing me of. Their saying that these people protesting are scum and throwing things at the police is wrong They said to me why can't people march from A to B and listen to people speak and then go home to show their anger...

i say you do an A to B march in protest at your family member and see if they change their mind

Found a better way to piss them of, saying a legitimate target is 'posh shops' which seemed to remove them from the room quicker then you could throw a SWP placard at Tony Benn.

Anyway the protests seem very interesting.

Edit- found what I wanted from the blog, would say it is one of the best sources on the net (theres no thumbs up).

Today's demo in Paris was simply....... ***** amazing! Excellent organization, coordination, but, still, quite a lot of tension in the street. But still!!!!! I've never lived anything like this, even the demos against Le Pen were smaller in 2002....!!!!!!! I'm at loss of words to describe this.

So many people on strike in France, and protesting. Grandmas on their wheel chairs, children, high school students, uni students, young workers, older ones... waaaah....

I left a bit late to join the demo and, there was absolutely nobody in the streets in my district. Desert streets, so weird. When I arrived at the meeting point, there was so many people there it was hard to move through the crowd and thus for kilometers. Its like half of Paris was outside today, which makes quite a lot of people

Ok, i don't have much time now but, 3 Million still seems not enough for the government, so, we still need to be more. Villepin said he wouldn't move an inch. Stupid stubborn dumb person. Chirac, though, has canceled all his meetings over France and Europe this week and is supposed to do a speech on TV at the end of the week: hmmm.

Moreover, the Conseil COnstitutionnel is supposed to give an answer to the question: is the cpe unconstitutionnal or not? on Thursday, or something like that.

No resting for us, the fight goes on. Sorry for not posting regularly, am very busy these days....

Some french guy on Sky News blamed anarchists (as well as young employed kids) for starting the violence.

hmm, i think theres some truth in what you're saying. the fact that 'neds' are not immigrants i don't think matters that much. there are some real but crude similarities- hidden from society, their poverty is blamed on them, dismissed as scum and yobs, they both love wearing sports gear! (the last one i think is relevant - in edinburgh last year, and in france now, you're getting folk coming out who are not the usual liberal left set, who i'm afraid to say, can be spotted a mile off by their dress style)- i'm speaking in pretty dodgy, wanky, generalised and vague terms here.

i was there when the kids from leith attacked the english cops at rose street, just as an observer, in edinburgh last summer. it was totally unexpected, and i know these kids (not these but specific ones mind), they came straight up for a ruck after seeing it all on the telly in the afternoon. fair play to them.

i was half expecting folk to come up and fight the protesters tbh such was the atmosphere in the city last summer (unbeknown to most demonstrators, 80% the population was shit scarred and very much against the demonstrators, such was the whipped up fear the local press created.),

so i think there are legitimate comparisons, i haven't got a fucking scoobie what the implications are.

these issues, of security and that, are hidden right now by debts and credit which is keeping things running along, but this report today http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4850160.stm shows that the issues of security and whatnot are just as relevant here, it looks like we're one economic blip short of having the whole pack of cards fall in for many many families, fuck i'm sure half of us are more than aware of this anyway, but theres the facts laid out, its scary.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/sch1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/PunkDub/Sch2.jpg

''Une lutte prolongee (a prolonged fight) - the ghost of May 68 reappears ''