Hamburg Riots - Prelude to G8 Trouble (Plus Pics)

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georgestapleton's picture
georgestapleton
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Jun 3 2007 15:13

Well I'd probably give my TD a call. Point is its not our political project, working class self-organisation only makes sense in the context of advancing explicitly working class interests. Cleaning up dogshit is a pretty poor example of explicitly working class interests. In fact opposition to the G8 is a better example of class politics than cleaning up dogshit. That said I appreciate oisleeps point. Community and workplace organisation where we are is needed, riots on the other side of europe aren't. That said there's no need to condemn them. There's nothing wrong with them and we don't have a monopoly on anarchism. Their protests and riotting is completely legitimate.

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 3 2007 15:17
madashell wrote:
Did you write that? grin

it is sunday ... too much free time obviously. campaign for a 12hr day/6 day week anyone?

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georgestapleton
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Jun 3 2007 15:21

That's kind of sad. Funny though. And depressingly accurate.

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 3 2007 15:25

in mitigation it took all of five minutes, which suggests my knowledge of summit protest dynamics is a little too much embarrassed

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Inigo Montoya
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Jun 3 2007 16:10

June 3 (Bloomberg) -- German police in the northern city of Rostock and protest organizers said almost 1,000 people were hurt after violence erupted during yesterday's mostly peaceful demonstration against this week's Group of Eight summit.

Some 520 demonstrators were injured -- primarily by stinging tear gas -- with 20 serious injuries, protest spokeswoman Sabine Zimpel said today. Police spokesman Frank Scheulen said 433 police offers were hurt yesterday, 30 of them seriously

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 3 2007 16:18

capitalism shakes to its foundations. seriously, violence is nothing to fetishise.

breakout
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Jun 3 2007 17:30

Yes, stop burning cars, get back to work and clean up that shit.

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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Jun 3 2007 17:32

that's exactly what i said roll eyes

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madashell
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Jun 3 2007 17:55
guydebordisdead wrote:
Of course, but when thousands of young people get together and sack a city that the g8 visits it's not the worst thing in the world.

No, but it's not exactly the best if you happen to live there.

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oisleep
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Jun 3 2007 18:02

who cares about that, as long as they get their adrenialn rush

oisleep's picture
oisleep
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Jun 3 2007 18:03
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Might not be achieving anything, but its got to at least get a bit of adrenalin going I'd have thought.

how old are u?

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oisleep
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Jun 3 2007 18:04

and 'sack a city' grin

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 3 2007 18:29
guydebordisdead wrote:
Joseph K. wrote:
capitalism shakes to its foundations. seriously, violence is nothing to fetishise.

Of course, but when thousands of young people get together and sack a city that the g8 visits it's not the worst thing in the world. A lot of them go on to become serious anarchists and things like that give them confidence. Cops being injured while defending the g8 is , while not a proletarian victory, a smile in a heartless world, obv.

i was responding to the bolded "Police spokesman Frank Scheulen said 433 police offers were hurt yesterday, 30 of them seriously," not summit protests in general, though if the critique fits ...

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oisleep
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Jun 3 2007 19:02

what do u think of class war's hospitalised copper pics and the like btw?

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robot
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Jun 3 2007 19:18
guydebordisdead wrote:
433 cops injured (bolded or not) is probably the best thing to come out of summit protests in years.

The police body count is nuts. Geman police always count everyone who wrenched his thumb while beating protestors. We saw some injured cops but a police engaged in the game and the provocations where exclusivly heavily armed and protected anti-riot storm-troopers. In fact only 12 cops were (for a few hours) treated in a hospital. The rest is the official propaganda. The intention was obvious and worked quite well - separating the different wings of the protest movement who are preparing the actions and blockades next week.

j.rogue
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Jun 3 2007 19:22

A lot of friends of mine consider anti-globalization protests "gateway activism." Like the shiny glory stuff attracts a lot of people, and the serious ones stick around after the teargas clears. Not untrue.

David in Atlanta
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Jun 3 2007 19:43
j.rogue wrote:
A lot of friends of mine consider anti-globalization protests "gateway activism." Like the shiny glory stuff attracts a lot of people, and the serious ones stick around after the teargas clears. Not untrue.

I agree completely with your friends. which is why organized anarchist communists and syndicalists should be flooding the convergence centers with our literature whenever possible

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Joseph Kay
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Jun 3 2007 19:56
David in Atlanta wrote:
j.rogue wrote:
A lot of friends of mine consider anti-globalization protests "gateway activism." Like the shiny glory stuff attracts a lot of people, and the serious ones stick around after the teargas clears. Not untrue.

I agree completely with your friends. which is why organized anarchist communists and syndicalists should be flooding the convergence centers with our literature whenever possible

never been to one, but sounds plausible. i think several libcommers were in genoa

Terry
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Jun 3 2007 20:33

Slagging off summit protests is so 2005.

Seriously though, don't really get the 'entry point' argument, for the simple reason next to anything can function as an 'entry point'. It justifys being at summit protests, and doing publicity work at them, doesn't justify organising them or building for them though (not saying above posters are necessarily arguing that). I think a lot of the big media image around violence that follows from them is counter-productive also. I think some of the popular interpretation of them is of an outbreak of inexplicable vandalism and mindless violence.

Cardinal Tourettes
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Jun 3 2007 21:01
oisleep wrote:
Quote:
Might not be achieving anything, but its got to at least get a bit of adrenalin going I'd have thought.

how old are u?

Well past it, but not yet at the stage were I'd cite "dog shit, anti-social crime, drug misery" as my main political concerns.
How about yourself? Letter from the queen on the mantelpiece is it?

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oisleep
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Jun 3 2007 21:31

34

at least your honest about not giving a fuck about huge chunks of day to day material concerns of the class you hold yourself up to be a vanguard off

(and i'd have thought most people would be aware that saying things like clearing up dog shite is a euphinism for the wider day to day issues & concerns faced by the bulk of the population)

btw, have you ever noticed the tag line for this site

Quote:
libcom.org is a resource for all people who wish to improve their lives, their communities and their working conditions
Cardinal Tourettes
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Jun 3 2007 21:53

Yeah I'm a big vanguardist me.
What I need is a program, and a poop scoop.

"libcom.org is a resource for all people who wish to improve their lives, their communities and their working conditions"

Wow, everyone will find it useful!

David in Atlanta
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Jun 3 2007 22:11
Joseph K. wrote:
David in Atlanta wrote:
j.rogue wrote:
A lot of friends of mine consider anti-globalization protests "gateway activism." Like the shiny glory stuff attracts a lot of people, and the serious ones stick around after the teargas clears. Not untrue.

I agree completely with your friends. which is why organized anarchist communists and syndicalists should be flooding the convergence centers with our literature whenever possible

never been to one, but sounds plausible. i think several libcommers were in genoa

The london indymedia worker who was nearly killed is an online friend of mine.

I took part in the April 2000 World Bank protests, did support work for indymedia the week before the protests started and then was on the streets with the iww . It was worth it. I know those things don't replace long term workplace and community organizing, but shutting down Penns. Ave. on a workday is a memory I cherish.

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madashell
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Jun 4 2007 08:04
Terry wrote:
Slagging off summit protests is so 2005.

Seriously though, don't really get the 'entry point' argument, for the simple reason next to anything can function as an 'entry point'. It justifys being at summit protests, and doing publicity work at them, doesn't justify organising them or building for them though (not saying above posters are necessarily arguing that). I think a lot of the big media image around violence that follows from them is counter-productive also. I think some of the popular interpretation of them is of an outbreak of inexplicable vandalism and mindless violence.

Yeah, it's definately a good idea to have a presence on marches, give out prop, etc.

I was thinking it might be a good idea to hold a public meeting about summit protests after this year's G8. Probably been done before, but the discussion is worth having, if only to put forward an alternative point of view to people who might be attracted to it.

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Inigo Montoya
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Jun 4 2007 12:08

Some New Pics:

Thrashing_chomsky
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Jun 4 2007 13:12

I strongly suggest [in an as-far-unauthoritarian way as possible] that in future, all Black Bloc members have sex, or at least masturbate before going to G8, get rid of some fucking testosterone....

The Media's going to make a dogs dinner out of this... we've just kicked outselves in the nuts.

heartskat
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Jun 4 2007 14:09

Ah come on, nothing's wrong with sport.
And is up with youse and the media?

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Inigo Montoya
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Jun 4 2007 15:24
guydebordisdead wrote:
Inigo Montoya, my dearest comrade, while I'm sure your enthusiasm for posting riot porn is quite genuine, I'm certain that if you read the thread you might realise that libcom isn't the best place for it. Also I think that's your da's car they toppled up there?

grin

Point taken.

Feck off. wink

wangwei
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Jun 4 2007 17:11

Just adding this from A-infos:

Quote:
en) Germany, anti G8 news
Date Mon, 04 Jun 2007 00:49:15 +0300

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to look through the media prism and be sure of what was actually said to the press, but one thing looks to be certain: ATTAC in Germany is headed by a rat named Werner Ratz. --- While it seems clear that much of the violence yesterday in Rostock was provoked by police tactics, such as splitting the demonstrators into separate groups, thus creating a riot zone. Ratz's group not only distanced themselves from the violence (which each has the right to do), but blamed anarchists for starting it. What's worse, it seems that Ratz may be behind the crappy tendency now seem in the German press to blame foreign anarchists for all the violence. --- "...in any case, the behavior of many anarchists, in the way they continually chased the police, was atypical for German groups." Ratz said during a talk in which the idea that foreigners were responsible for the trouble looks to have spread around.

Now it seems that foreign people were disproportionately kept to be charged after arrests were made yesterday.

There is an account from yesterday, based on various sources on www.cia.bzzz.net English news

http://www.ainfos.ca/en/ainfos19513.html

I'm wondering how much of the violence is anarchists, how much infiltrators, how much genuine class struggle and expression. It's difficult to get a grasp of what's happening.

Terry
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Jun 4 2007 19:14

I don't think one needs to infiltrate a black bloc to get it to throw rocks, smash shit, and burn things.......I like the way they are blaming foreign anarchists, elsewhere they blame the German ones. Clowns are funny, a bunch of youths dressed in paramilitary clothing and throwing rocks is intimidating for a lot of people. If Wiccans, wavy hands, crimethinc, vegan mush and what have you * , is supposed to be 'off putting' and alienating to the proverbial 'man in the street' then what of black blocs......and indeed even more so riot porn. In case this comes across as I dunno self righteous or something, yes I once thought all that in inigo's pictures was well cool some years ago.

* None of which actually gets media coverage, see outrage here about two guys inflating their ball sacks at a bookfair in California, by comparision with the massive media event which is the ritual annual conflict at a summit.