Hezbollocks and Israbies!
Jul 27 2006 08:15
Class War press release on the Middle East war:http://www.londonclasswar.org/newswire_hezbollocks.php
Jul 28 2006 02:12
#2
yeah that's actually a decent statement, who wrote it?
I'm guessing it weren't the exiled gangster as he is busy raising an International Brigade
.
Jul 28 2006 07:28
#3
revol68 wrote:
I'm guessing it weren't the exiled gangster as he is busy raising an International Brigade
You might be right there.....
Jul 28 2006 08:49
#4
revol68 wrote:
yeah that's actually a decent statement, who wrote it?I'm guessing it weren't the exiled gangster as he is busy raising an International Brigade
Yes, it's not bad. What is going on, Paul? 
Devrim
Sep 13 2006 17:20
#5
Yo.
My cousin met some of you guys at Marxism in London. He said there was some guy with a stick who was very articulate.
After Marxism he said he hated the SWP more than Bush.
Anyway I liked the analysis of the Middle-East. Do you mind if I quote you on I piece I am doing for left-wing.net.
Sep 14 2006 07:19
#6
Hi Moshehess,
Sure that wont be a problem if you want to use any articles we write.
Sep 15 2006 08:05
#7
Talk softly, and carry a big stick.
If only Class War had started doing that years ago.....
Sep 16 2006 14:54
#8
your anti-fascist section is GREAT!
Sep 30 2006 09:30
#9
That's a spot on press release. Nice one. (Takes me a while to read these things!)
Sep 30 2006 13:39
#10
rich wrote:
That's a spot on press release. Nice one. (Takes me a while to read these things!)
Don't worry Rich - we'll wait for you.
Sep 30 2006 20:59
#11
Moshehess wrote:
After Marxism he said he hated the SWP more than Bush.
i see that, but it's still quite a statement
Oct 13 2006 09:47
#12
PaulMarsh wrote:
Class War press release on the Middle East war:http://www.londonclasswar.org/newswire_hezbollocks.php
deal with teh fucking wallapaper! i can't read that, its got leery skulls behind it!
Oct 13 2006 17:41
#13
Sorry - how about a backdrop of Kropotkin picking his beard?
Oct 15 2006 17:33
#14
how about a plain colour like sane people like their backgrounds to be?
serious suggestion. How many magasines or papers have this kind of motif on every page?
sorry i'm not actually talking about the article.
Oct 15 2006 18:50
#15
ok, i have read the article.
Surprised that others are surprised by this, its very similar to other CW stuff of late.
Its a good statement and well written, i always like the style, but its not actually very... Well, for the sake of debate i'll say a couple of things, but i wouldn't bother IRL.
I'm not sure that a simple no war but the class war statement really addresses the situation. Its a good piece, but what people would come back at you with is - How? Great analysis, yes the intifada was mint, yes Oslo was a PLO buy off, but what is the task for those opposed to the attack on lebanon and occupation of palestine, here and over there?
Also, the '1 state, 2 states, we all fall down' is the same. Yes, anarchists are against the state. In this situation, many anarchists in palestine and israel would be happy to see some sort of state established as an interim objective to then demand the real deal - return of refugees, voting rights, land, equality, prisoner amnesty etc. There is of course a number of ways the state could be conceied and used to the advantage of the Zionists - and i think they way the washed their hands of Gaza but continued to fuck with it on the sly is an example of this - but many people believe it is worth while to try and force a state out of them just to stop the killing in the short term.
This is up for discussion, and i take on board the point that the Zionist project is so unlikely to give Palestine a deent settlement that calling for 2 states is as utopian as calling for none, but perhaps take on board what palestinians and Israelis are saying...?
lastly: The SWP did not produce the 'we are all hezbollah' placards from the 2 lebanon demo's i attended, it was the (?) British Muslim something, or MAB or someone else... Just had a google and all ive discovered is that the slogan caught the eyes of lazy right wing pundit fucks all over the world to slag off the march and the palestinian cause.
Grand.
Oct 15 2006 18:57
#16
Tacks wrote:
lastly: The SWP did not produce the 'we are all hezbollah' placards from the 2 lebanon demo's i attended, it was the (?) British Muslim something, or MAB or someone else... Just had a google and all ive discovered is that the slogan caught the eyes of lazy right wing pundit fucks all over the world to slag off the march and the palestinian cause.
but galloway did go on sky news with a split screen of injured israeli soldiers gloating about how hezbollah were giving israel "a bloody good hiding" (on youtube somewhere). i know he's not a SWPpie either, technically, but the company they keep - the MAB and Galloway, has to say something.
Oct 15 2006 19:10
#17
sure, but as i've kind of pointed out the gravity of the slogan means it should really be correctly attributed. Much as i hate the SWP, it is equally hateful that right wing scum with typical bilious and emotionally lead style, have slandered the entire march with the slogan.
Another 'liberals are anti semites cos they don't love israel' job.
The SWP keep bad company, but i tink the distinction between a friendly silence towards islamism and actual islamism should be maintained; it demonstrates, on some levels, how weak they are. They've boxed themselves into a totally contradictory allaince.
Oct 15 2006 19:19
#18
yeah fair point. but i did i see one of the SWP central commitee (chris nineham i think) arguing that we should generally oppose nationalim and islamism, except in iraq and palestine, which are 'crucial battlegrounds for the working class against capitalism today' (he didn't explain why, presumably because they sell papers/pull in students 
)
they have a really two-faced analysis, like in more theoretical/intra-lefty circles Alex Callinicos can offer up some fairly thought-out and nuanced analysis (much as i may disagree with it), but for 'public consumption' they peddle whatever opportunistic line suits them
Oct 15 2006 20:17
#19
PaulMarsh wrote:
Class War press release on the Middle East war:
Oct 15 2006 20:17
#20
sorry
Oct 16 2006 09:35
#21
In the new paper we have put the CW statement in, plus one's from a Lebanese Libertarian Communist, European CNT groups and the Israeli WAC group.
A range of views!
What is remarkable since this conflict is how many different theories there are already about what is was really about.
These range from a proxy war betweeen the US and Iran, to the desire of the Israelis to find out just how strong Hezbollah actually were by having a "mini-war" before the real thing. The last Socialist Standard also had some claims that the Israelis were in fact motivated by the need to improve their access to both oil and in particular water in the region.
I have seen all these points argued well - but they can't all be right?
Oct 16 2006 09:40
#22
there's no neccessary contradiction between them, on what you've said ...
US wants to pressure Iran, can't attack directly because they're too tied up next door (east and west). So up steps everyone's favourite proxy state with various agendas of its own, including an eye on the scarce water resources of the region and an ongoing thorn in it's side it wanted to test.
I mean different israeli politicians and military commanders probably had different agendas, not to mention the different agendas of various US neocons, blair etc
Oct 16 2006 10:15
#23
Joseph K. wrote:
I mean different israeli politicians and military commanders probably had different agendas, not to mention the different agendas of various US neocons, blair etc
I think that is a key thing to remember on issues like this.
Anarchists often make the dreadful mistake of seeing the state as one monolithic bloc, where everyone thinks and acts in unison, when reality is a lot more complicated.
Indeed, given the Israeli PM was generally seen to have had a "bad war" quite a few of his opponents will have been delighted, whilst making a mental note to fix Hezbollah next time.....
Oct 16 2006 22:40
#24
PaulMarsh wrote:
In the new paper we have put the CW statement in, plus one's from a Lebanese Libertarian Communist, European CNT groups and the Israeli WAC group.A range of views!
nice one, will have a copy saturday.
who is WAC tho? I know you put the Anarchists Against The Wall dates up ur site, but did anyone in CW make it to the meetings? I organised one, but it was for liberals and leftists, it would have been great to have an anarchist one/have some anarcho's there.
They say, and others say, they are (unwillingly) the only anarchist group in Israel. Matzpen (?) are apparently totally inactive.
Nov 10 2006 13:41
#25
Matzpen are socialist and they're very much active both in Israel and in UK.
Regarding this statement, unfortunately, we must now revoke our earlier praise for the article from this Class War Fedearation/London Class War based on information that has recently come to light about the group.
We'll leave the article wherever we republished it, if only to allow the many comments which it aroused from our readership to remain in context, and advise that we will not be publishing any more of your work, however supportive it might appear to be on the surface.
This is nothing personal - this is about CWF/LCW ideology
love
Luther
Nov 10 2006 21:15
#26
wtf are you talking about mate?
Nov 14 2006 01:01
#27
I'm interested to hear what the reasons are...
Nov 14 2006 22:04
#28
Yeah who are the WAC as tacks says?
And the Lebanese?
Matzpen are active!?! Where?! I really don't think they are.
They do have a bunch of articles archived we don't have in the library though...
Nov 14 2006 23:18
#29
highly active - note the contemporary dress
Nov 14 2006 23:22
#30
Ed has stolen my Matzpen DVD 
As a fellow Jewish Anarchist said,
Nice one. Some Honour restored.
