Ironically this is the same title as a revol thread.
i want to be a cop
I'm sure soon enough we'll have a bunch of union hacks on here arguing why the SEIU isn't ALL that bad, but I've noticed they've been increasingly quiet since the revelation of secret agreements with management, not merely over pay, but over where and how many people, can be organized.
Sean Siberio wrote:
I'm sure soon enough we'll have a bunch of union hacks on here arguing why the SEIU isn't ALL that bad, but I've noticed they've been increasingly quiet since the revelation of secret agreements with management, not merely over pay, but over where and how many people, can be organized.
The agreements that come to an end in a few months?
EdmontonWobbly wrote:
Bullshit, revol the sentiment is meaningless unless the rank and file themselves share this sentiment. It's Vanguardist crap of the worst kind and actually seriously undermines a real critique of unions.
Oh it's vanguardist crap to know that these unions are bullshit? Do we all have to pretend to be fucking retarded until every last 'worker' catches on too?
I said the action was silly but the sentiment is spot on, whether or not the rank and file share it is meaningless to it's turthfulness, unless you're a patronising leftist cunt who likes to pretend to be on the same levels as the mystical entity of the 'masses', 'rank n file' or 'the class'.
EdmontonWobbly wrote:
Bullshit, revol the sentiment is meaningless unless the rank and file themselves share this sentiment. It's Vanguardist crap of the worst kind and actually seriously undermines a real critique of unions.
'support workers not unions' is a meaningless sentiment?
on a side note,
you dont tag up someone else union hall that has absolutely no connection to either of the struggles they mention in their press release or on the walls. its great that whatever cunts did this are keeping up with the rank and file union movement but they just completely alienated one local (possibly every local in the area) from that movement and anything to do with libertarian communism.
H wrote:
Sean Siberio wrote:
I'm sure soon enough we'll have a bunch of union hacks on here arguing why the SEIU isn't ALL that bad, but I've noticed they've been increasingly quiet since the revelation of secret agreements with management, not merely over pay, but over where and how many people, can be organized.The agreements that come to an end in a few months?
You mean the ones that are being renegotiated?
Quote:
you dont tag up someone else union hall that has absolutely no connection to either of the struggles they mention in their press release or on the walls.
Bang on. Revol, you really aren't very good in the social skills end of things are you? Addressing sell out unions in a way that doesn't alienated people is not being a 'patronising leftist cunt' it means you actually care enough about the struggle to bother going about it in a way where you might actually win.
I mean we criticise the shit out of unions in our city but also show them up by giving more support to their own strikes than other AFL unions with ten times the members and resources we do. As a result we are actually treated as a real threat, you think SEIU is hurt by this? If anything it strengthens them, and marginalises their critics.
Seriously, its probably just a bunch of punk kids with too much goddamned time on their hands. I don't think its especially ingenious, or even useful, and I doubt anyone will care about it in a weeks time.
As to the defending secret deals with management by pointing out that their coming up for revision soon, they should have never been negotiated in the first place. And for once I actually agree with revol; why does everything have to revolve around the lowest denominator? Why is it everytime someone says something, and expresses their own opinion or does an action, its "Alienating" to other "workers", not based on some actual real analysis, but that because the people are being honest with their politics? What should we do? Lie and stuff our own opinions, even though some of us are "Real workers" too?
Well for starters get your people straight, I don't support SEIU and really don't give a shit about about a crummy american business union. Second I am straight up with my opinions on unions, I think 90% of the time they sabotage rank and file activity and seek to coopt workers struggles into a social democratic framework.
I just think that criticism has to be done from a position of real legitimacy, something that spray painting slogans on union halls doesn't do. Who is the lowest common denominator here? A couple of dumbass tourists with spray paint or someone who says you have to engage people on the terrain of their own struggles. Hell I don't even have a problem with workers attacking their own union hall but for someone who spouts off about substitutionism I think its pretty rich for revol not to get the basic argument here.
This is based on a real analysis, real analysis means having a strategy and an understanding of how this is going to be perceived and spun by the union establishment. If you want a stronger argument against any radicalism to the bureaucracy by all means act like a bunch of teenagers and amateurs. Just out of curiousity what is your analysis and what experience is this based on?
I'm straight up about my views on unions, instead of spray painting a union office I talk to my co-workers, my co workers who happen to be union. You know communicating with people outside your subcultural ghetto, ever hear of that?
tastybrain wrote:
Edmonton, Revol already said he thought the action itself was silly. No one on this thread is supporting moronic stunts like this, only expressing agreement with the understanding that unions are shit.
I think you're wrong. I said I supported it and listed another potential target.
EdmontonWobbly wrote:
Yeah and I'm saying the way you go about putting this sort of message out there is inseparable from a). who is saying it and b). how they say it.Also it isn't just silly it really undermines a real position on this issue.
Running dog of the left wing of capital!
"On May 23, some anonymous actors left acid on a window of the SEIU union office on Mission St in Santa Cruz, and spraypainted the walls red and black with anarchy signs and revolutionary slogans"
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/05/24/18501958.php