Israeli plans to cut off east Jerusalem?

Is it really necessary for you to post pointless sniping off-topic comments? I thought some AF members avoid certain discussions on these forums due to behaviour like that. Also please point out where anyone said ID cards aren't a class issue apart from you. Thanks.

OK sorry, maybe I should have said 'enough' of class issue. It's the use of ID technology as a weapon of control (in this case their removal from one part of a population) that seems to be becoming pervasive and was specifically mentioned by rabr, so hardly off-topic. It's also being used to create 'secure' zones in Basra, it's is defining the ins and outs of Europe, it's being used to discriminate against Roma in Italy. I don't know what I can do about it's use outside of Britain, but this threat to freedom of movement is central to a anarchist perspective on the world. My point, is, we can see an example of just how central the issue of identity cards can become so perhaps we can analyse the problem a bit better and learn how to fight it?

I'd be interested to know if ID has been taken away from everyone equally (it's not mentioned in the Guardian article)?

Well this might be a reason to find out whose ID is being taken away. Otherwise your comment is not much different than saying that all gypsies are thieves (the reason that Roma are threatened with being fingerprinted in Italy). Also would you also argue for stronger border control to keep potential terrorists out of Britain (or to deport people who are deemed unwelcome)?

usually safe to assume so

The Israeli politicians are just trying to ride the public outrage in order to get some points. Three people were killed by this Palestinian nut-job, of course the automatic response is that the guy was a terrorist, etc. It's dreadful that they've forced his family to drop public displays of mourning, of course, but the policies being discussed have been going on for a while now. It's not actually news.

And where the hell does it say anything about id cards being taken away?

For Palestinians this happens daily.

WTF!? So all Israeli Arabs are terrorists all of a sudden? What are you on about? And by the way this bloke was not a member of any organisation, he was just a normal fella who lost it and thought- fuck it ,I ain't taking this shit anymore. I'm not praising what he did but what I am saying is that any one of us has the potential to do something like that in the right circumstances ie being treated like sub human shit 24/7, he snapped. No wonder certain forums accuse you lot of being Zionists and Huns. The ID cards being taken away was reported on the BBC and possibly Al Jazeera.

So r n' b riot, please read before getting worked up. And try to not be so fucking black and white in your views about Palestine and Israel. Not slagging off Israel all the time doesn't equate zionism. But you sound like a fucking Palestinian nationalist, which basically is the same as a Zionist.

I didn't label anyone a Zionist on this thread! I can't understand why people are so skeptical about my original post either.

What exactly do you propose I or any other poster who isn't from palestine is supposed to do about this particular act of oppression?

In fairness, there's nothing wrong with publicising attacks on working class groups in an international context, nor in urging people to sign petitions, send emails to embassies etc, which is easy and does at least do the ABC thing of reminding policymakers they're being watched.

But yeah beyond that, the best thing you can possibly do to fight oppression in Jerusalem is to fight it here - to build up the forces of progression so that when Palestinians call for help in the future they will actually get it, be that via money, widespread boycotts of Israeli goods, blackballing of the transport of Israeli goods, etc etc.

That is not accurate, I was just saying that some people on other forums have said that there are Zionists on Libcom. Other than that, I agree with your post.

John Somebody wrote:
The poor "terrorists" are people that I often criticise for picking the wrong targets, like bus bombings, instead of infrastructure. But I have to acknowledge that if my kiddies had been shot dead for playing out on the street, or for dithering a bit too near the "killing zone" near a sniper tower. Or having been shat on by settler thugs that none of us would be allowed to defend ourselves against, for 60 fucking years. All this while neo natzi state practitioners of genocide make terror from F16's etc, with apparent impunity. And while my community get criticised for being you know whats; then I just might be angry, bitter, and yes even twisted enough to want revenge. And I know, that from the comfort of my armchair, I can still realise on an intellectual level, that being motivated by a desire for revenge, will probably make things worse; I have to acknowledge, that it's probable that if I were to live in those conditions, in a legally enforced fucking ghetto, then I'd not be as rational as I usually am, or as rational as some smug bastard, able to philosophise about revolutionary theory might appear to be, with a full belly, and decent access to decent necessities. Why should I need to make this point ?

John Somebody wrote:
There is a black and white issue. Are the state practitioners of genocidal ethnic "cleansing", to be tolerated or not ? Surely you're not going to tell me that zio -neo -natzi's should be tolerated more than other types of neo - natzi's, are you ? And N O, a "fucking Palestinian nationalist" is not the same as a zionist, as it's not the Palestinians who've invaded Palestine, with the purpose of creating a state at the expense of the people already living there, pretty much in peace for a long time and killing people for being the wrong kind of Semites, (which makes it genocide) so's to create an exodus of refugees, leaving space for the theiving master race. The Palestinians, however, were not killing anyone for being any kind of Semite, or Jew, or other. And even when zionists became so clever at spreading , the lie, that to be Jewish, was to be a zionist it would not have been immediate for Palestinians capable of fighting back to belive it. And a long time of the next generation having no contact with Jews other than the imitation sort who came to kill and thieve.
Amazing that some of the above needs to be said to someone who's not a zionist.

While they're not identical, they're both simply local flavours of nationalism (as any other nationalism). And obviosuly zionism is the nationalism of the one party with the upper hand in the conflict.

I don't understand it either, despite the fact that, having been shocked by that statement by Jess, then I do find it easy to label at least one person as a zionist. But then I frequently don't understand things about zionists. Like how they can have the cheek, to expect anyone to believe them, when they claim Israel to be a democracy. . . . . . .As though genocidal acts of ethnic "cleansing", are demoratic ways to create and maintain a zionist majority, before those ha ha, free and fair elections. But maybe I shouldn't be so surprised, after all, when our politicians and media lackies tell us the same thing, they keep getting away with it. And for years, I didn't rub two brain cells together over it, either.