IWA congress greetings, Manchester 8-10th of December

Once more the same old troll while you remain silent on the thread where this issue is actually seriously discussed.
http://libcom.org/node/6599

One method of the troll for those who are unaware is to raise the same issue again and again while refusing to actually follow through a discussion of such an issue. The idea it to force the person being trolled to either waste vast amounts of their time restating the same thing again or again or force them into silence and guilt by implication. It's a pretty disgusting tactic but then revol68 has shown himself to be a pretty disgusting character even to people in his own organisation. Why his trolling is tolerate on libcom I don't know - it has been quite disgraceful in the last few days.

http://libcom.org/node/6599

Ok, so I take it that no one will talk about the discussion concerning the WSA and the US in general? I don't care if you PM me, but I think we in the WSA have a right to know what you all said about us. Like I said, the IWA had us on the agenda and didn't invite us to attend.

On this point---as a member of the WSA---I find it silly that I can't get an answer, on list or off.

I didn't get a chance to say thanks, had to work in another dept. I'm back.

Managed to glean some useful stuff from this thread...

Joe, firstly I gave repsonse to that, it was on this very thread, except apparently it didn't meet your protocol. I mean what is this obsession of keeping all discussion on that thread? Fuck, you must have worse away form than Liverpool.

It's also hilarious that your complaining about trolling when everyone can see your intervention in this thread.

followed by,

quite, the USI's dilemna regarding the RSUs derives precisely from it being a meaningful organisation with functioning workplace syndicates. The problem being that a minority of their groups want to participate in RSUs because workplace assemblies told them to.

Reconciling the autonomy of component groups, and the organisation's principles as a whole is less of a problem when you've got two dozen members.

Personally, I was reassured by the USI's response to the question of the RSUs, recognising participation as a problem that they needed to solve, whilst insisting that the solution was not as simple as withdrawal.

Herein lies the contradiction, right? This has been the problem faced by many functioning anarcho-syndicalist unions in the post-1970s period.

Life's full of disappointments isn't it?

p.s. Why are you soooo interested in the goings on of a

anyway?

see that's the thing i think the parts of the IWA are worthmore than their sum. Incase you've been under a rock, i'm actually very sympathetic to the IWA groups in the their day to day work, which is why I find the soap opera that is the IWA so baffling and depressing. At a time when groups from all over the world are able to communicate in real time, it's sad that the IWA is soo far behind.

Quite.

Quite...especially with regard to the banning of horizontal communication between IWA sections.

Quite.

Quite...especially with regard to the banning of horizontal communication between IWA sections.

Actually I can't recall what was said about the WSA. I may have been busy doing some organisational stuff and I'd hate to post something that is inaccurate.

the USI's dilemna regarding the RSUs derives precisely from it being a meaningful organisation with functioning workplace syndicates. The problem being that a minority of their groups want to participate in RSUs because workplace assemblies told them to.

Comment
So if the assmbless tell them to kill jews or to go to state elections they will?
I think this is not an agument at all.
And i am not sure it is minority. But even if it is- magjority is not revolutuionary if it support and protect that. It was exactly the same with Viniol and with spanish CGT.

1) Assembly can make rong dissigion like in Kondopoga

2)That means that people who make reformist dissigions can be invulve into diskussions or kicked away. USI partisipate in RSU 10 years and still protect as organisation the RSU partisipants. It is in 100% the same with CNT-Viniol or SAC or spanish CGT. And we know where do they go and what they do. I tell more: USI invite workers for cooperation with all trade-unions in some sort of activity (anti-military). This is they offisial position.

3) There is contradiction with direct action. DA means "no partisipation in any forms of social partneship" like RSU or state commitions or anything. So does IWA support for Direct Action or not? If not were are Viniol or SAC? There are those lovly comrades? Or there ofissial British trade-unions- we mast be friendlly with tham as USI want!

4) For me that people (USI) just trade-unionists and that means- enemis.
Yesterdey i get info that ouer friend at the big industrial factory had problems with secutrity after action of legal trade-unionists. Trade-unionists give information to boss about his activity. That menas that he can be kicked away from factory or from the sity (he has problems with nationality and registration) brutally attacked or even killed by mafia. So fuck trade-unionists and all they friends.

5) Tolerans to enimis is stuped. I agry there are some good activists in USI- they are against RSU ets. We know that. So we have to tolk with tham not with secretariat of USI.

p.s.
As for Revol68 - as i allredy say i am not talking with him. I am not going to diskusse anithing with somebody who never partisipate in real strugle of factory workers, and making stuped and rud comments.

p.p.s.
I strongly dislike FAU politiks but i wood like to say that disigin of congerss (if we understand it) is disgusting. Secretarit of IWA is not CheKa. Only sections cam make disigions about membership of another sections.

sorry i'll get to work right away, even if it involves rearranging the whole UK economy in order to save the manufacturing sector.

actually fuck that, it'd be easier to phone up fellow short arse Marty McFly and take his car back to the 1970's. I reckon it would be amazing trying to organise wild cats with my old man, like some sort of Loach/Speilberg collaboration.

Gentlemen,
Among all this comradely, proletarian banter there is just the batsqueak of a suggestion that "Affinity Groups" might just have the edge over "organisations" as the prefered model of a future free society.
Here's to Braver and Better Times!
Peter Good (TCA)

would you ever fuck off you silly old crank.

There is a few things i want to bring bring up,

The IWA is not an historic fanclub, it is engaging in real union struggle or interventions even in states where there is massive repression such as in Columbia, we have contacts anarcho syndicalists who are currently outside of the IWA for the time being such as WSA and a new(ish) anarcho syndicalist group in Bulgraia and comrades in greece. Sections of the IWA are going to attempt to reform the American Workers Association (ACATT).

There are problems though and this the problem is the seemingly unresolvable issue of the FAU, CNTF-AIT feud. I think the FAU should not be expelled, and i dont beleive the comrade was arrogant. And there are some problems with the "Parellelist spectres" which some sections have problems with, though not the majority of sections.

USI have been given a massive vote of confidence and sections of the IWA was right to do so.ASI has been making a massive intervention for their numbers in the student struggle in serbia.

Like everyone else it was great to meet comrades, i had a great time taking the spanish comrades out and gettting pissed with sporadic revolutionary songs being sung. Talking to the comrades of teh FAU and the CNTE on how they organised unions has given me alot of ideas on how to approach the student project that will be undertaken by anarcho syndicalist students in University of Manchester.

Never heard of it. Where and what is it?

ACAT was founded in 1929 as a continental section/federation of IWA sections, of the Americas. As the most part of the sections were european, americans felt the need of more coordination.
Nowadays the brazilian IWA section sign as COB/ACAT-AIT, (i'm not sure FORA does the same).

Yeah, salvoecha pretty much has it on the mark. It's the Intercontintal Assn. of American Workers (ACAT in espan.).
I know for decades after the ACAT really wans't active the FORA used the initials.

We'll see what comes out of the Congress relative to this. I guess it would consist of the FORA, COB and the Friends Groups in Chile and Colombia. They'rre the IWA affilaues in the Americas.

News to me...

goes to show then.....

WSA (IWA from 1984-2000)regularly communicates with IWA Sections and vice versa. If folks really want to communicate with each other, work copperatively and constructively when needed and generally be civil enough in their communcations it will happen. It happens regularly on many levels and in the age of the internet communication is so much easier than, say, even a decade ago.

The pity of the past years in that we have wasted a lot of time in beating each others brains in and not enough time working together on issues of mutual concern. And that, I think, is probably the undertone as to why the IWA Congress didn't completely turn sour.

While the Principles & Aims of the IWA are important to me, while the work we did in the IWA was meaningful, real, constructive and generally poisitive there's more to the world than just the IWA in one sense. So the issue of general communication with those who share many of our values is impiortant and shouldn't be "regulated". Of course we can pick and choose who we want to speak with and to what extent. But if we can have open discussions and communications with reformist trade unionists(and stand in solidarity with "their" strikes), we can have open communications with folks who may be closer to our point of view, wether they are in the IWA or not.

Two comments to the IWA congress.
I'm happy that a lot of SF members had the chance to see an IWA congress live and have an better overview about what's going on and how.
The second is, that one of the regions (like Catalunya) of the CNT-E is the CNT Exile. Their office is in France, in Paris, in the Rue des Vignoles, in the same house... (does it ring?). No IWA member has tighter and more "illegal" connections to the "enemies of the IWA" as the CNT-E. Why does nobody want to kick the CNT-E out of the IWA because of their illegal contacts?
I and 5-10 other FAU members from Frankfurt want to take part in the I 07 in Paris. When we would stay there some days longer and take part in the first of May demonstration together with the CNT-E/Exile (they would be part of the block of the CNT-F Vignoles, so accidentially we may be too) the FAU would be kicked out of the IWA after this and that is requested by the CNT-E (Granada).
That's live, thats stupid

Additionaly please have a look at the new MC Workers interview on libcom.org, the international support of the 16th of October 2002 (Mc Workers resistance day) would may be have not been that successfull without the informations and discussions on the I02 in Essen. MWR had been there and explained their ideas, plans and actions to comrades from Sweden, France and a dozend other countrys to get additional support. And they got it. What's wrong?

Note: I've added the Freedom interview with Rolf Larssen tagged up in the library rather than in news cos of the dating of it etc.

Ere actually, just a reminder to jack but wasn't he gonna put up some interviews or something?

I think he hasn't had time to type them up yet because of his birthday/libcom xmas...

Ah fair play then