Kenya
Jan 3 2008 10:02
The headlines read of tribal conflict. A news report from Paul Mason(author of the brilliant Live Working or Die Fighting) on Newsnight shows the root is class poverty with tribal bigots capitalising on the conflict. Are there any Kenyan or African comrades who can throw more light on the class forces in Kenya. Which are genuine working class led and which are run by corrupt bureaucrats. What is the balance and what is the influence of USA, UK etc?
Jan 4 2008 14:35
#2
baboon wrote:
tensions between Britian and the USA over factions to back. It clearly demonstrates the decomposition of capitalism
Change the fucking record.
Jan 4 2008 14:40
#3
The question was asked by union about US and UK influences. There have been recent tensions between the USA and the UK. The political and economic situation is Keyna is extremely volatile and the meddling of the major imperialisms haven't helped.
Jan 5 2008 15:16
#4
Union raises a perfectly valid and important subject and guydebordisdead just takes the piss. The thread is called "Kenya" guy - do you have anything to say about it?
Kenya, a relatively prosperous party of Africa, indeed vaunted by the world's bourgeoisie as an "economic miracle" in the 80s. is sinking into a nightmare. What possible better "evidence", "proof" even - all things taken together - is there for greater and greater regions of the world falling into decomposition and barbarism, than the "evidence", the "proof" of your own eyes. But you have to have eyes to see.
This is an "economic miracle", a democratic state sinking into the abyss. No faction of the bourgeoisie, nor any alignment of factions is going to make the situation any better in the longer term. In fact the portents look ominous. Economic crisis, corruption and imperialist rivalries are all involved here.
Like many of Britain's ex-stamping grounds, the USA has been interfering in Britain's sordid imperialist interests in Kenya. Why should this be incomprehensible to guy?
During the 90s, the US administration drew up a list of priority African countries in which to counter British and French interests under its policy of "preventative diplomacy". Kenya, along with Senegal and Ethiopia appeared around the middle. From the early 90s to now, wars around Ethiopia, Sudan and Somalia have tended to disturb and spill over the borders of Kenya. From the east comes the wars of the Great Lakes, all them funded, armed and fed by Britain, France, Belgium, the USA, Russia and even Israeli imperialism. China imperialist thrust can now be added to this African mix.
It's not clear at the moment what imperialist powers are involved in the current events or if they are involved at all. But they are certainly in the background plotting and scheming to their advantage and against any advantage to their adverseries.
The deepening economic crisis is hitting the lesser imperialisms like Kenya hard, causing immediate destibilisation and unrest. Massive price rises in basic materials can only worsen the situation overall - and while there's no direct mechanical link between economic crisis and imperialist developments, the one always has an impact on the other.
The working class certainly exists in Kenya and wherever it can it must maintain its unity against the trap of democracy or the slaughter of tribalism. Workers in the major metropoles must note this is one more abject failure within the "pattern" of the decomposition of capitalism.
Jan 7 2008 15:14
#5
Above should read "from the west" comes the threat of wars from the Great Lakes region.
Reports over the weekend say that many workers are scared to go to work. The role of the state and the governing faction seems to be much more behind some of the "ethnic cleansing" with outright repression and firing on innocent civilians. The state appears to be using some paramilitary units according to news reports.
France has stirred up the waters with Foreign Minister, Kouchner, taking up the cause of Odinga, the losing candidate. The USA is calling the shots and is clearly backing (for the moment) the President. In this respect it has cut the feet from under the ground of the British who are also backing the President but more circumscibed given the manoeuvres of the US/
Jan 7 2008 15:23
#6
baboon wrote:
Above should read "from the west" comes the threat of wars from the Great Lakes region.
so edit ur post...?
Jan 8 2008 00:22
#7
baboon wrote:
France has stirred up the waters with Foreign Minister, Kouchner, taking up the cause of Odinga, the losing candidate. The USA is calling the shots and is clearly backing (for the moment) the President. In this respect it has cut the feet from under the ground of the British who are also backing the President but more circumscibed given the manoeuvres of the US/
What?
And this is a pretty weak analysis really. I mean, this is international diplomacy we're talking about, not Big Brother's Little Brother. I'd be interested to hear more about the Newsnight report from the OP though.
Incidentally, I discovered that a friend of mine had landed a job working for an African-centred PR company whose clients include the Kenyan government. Apparently the Sunday Times think her boss' partially guilty for the quagmire out there.
Jan 8 2008 14:02
#8
There is evidence mounting up that during the election campaign Odinga deliberately played the tribal card. The main thing for a communist intervention in or outside of Kenya is the denounciation of democracy - this is democracy. What do you think "international diplomacy" is Alan. A means for the democratic states to sort out problems in the world? Don't be naive.
Prices of basic materials have now risen x3 since "election day".
French backing for Odinga was extremely fast in coming (publically, anyway) and this leads to the possibility that France was backing this fraction of the Kenyan bourgeoisie before. Odinga's playing of the tribal card in the election campaign is perfectly consistent with French foreign policy in Africa to further its own imperialist interests. Rwanda is not very far away.
Tacks, I don't understand a lot of "jokes" on here - half the time I don't know if they are jokes or not. Can you explain, on this thread on Kenya, what you mean by "so edit ur post...?"?
Jan 8 2008 14:05
#9
baboon wrote:
Tacks, I don't understand a lot of "jokes" on here
Don't sweat, you're a left communist - you're not built for humour.
Jan 8 2008 14:25
#10
Another incisive post on the situation in Kenya guy, it only adds credibility to your other incisive posts. And your "jokes" are older than the hills.
Jan 8 2008 14:50
#11
I'm less interested in Kenya than I am in the ICC's pet baboon. Although perhaps I ought to stop feeding him.
Jan 8 2008 16:06
#12
baboon wrote:
There is evidence mounting up that during the election campaign Odinga deliberately played the tribal card. The main thing for a communist intervention in or outside of Kenya is the denounciation of democracy - this is democracy. What do you think "international diplomacy" is Alan. A means for the democratic states to sort out problems in the world? Don't be naive.
Well although sometimes the ICC gets it spot on with regard to international diplomacy, this general decomposing international bourgeoisie line which you seem to intent to superimpose on every world event like a Catholic priest on an 8 year old is millenarian trash. Oddly enough, regional bourgeoisies are capable of disagreeing while still seeing the bigger picture. How do you explain the Suez crisis, which didn't at all lead to the biodegrading of the non-renewable rotting corpse of the dead fossil fuel murder blood ruling class kill?
Jan 8 2008 21:49
#13
The Suez crisis of 56? Not exactly the same period as today's. But how do you explain it?
Jan 30 2008 12:41
#14
On the side of Odinga's ODM there's been a general winding up of local youth in its cause throughout the election campaign.
Now there's increasing activity of the 'Mungiki', a sort of criminal sect with links to the state and the governing party. They've been supported by the police in some of their murderous rampages in the west of the country. Things don't look good for Kenya and there's a danger that the army will fracture turning the country into a series of contending faction fights.
For one reason and another, US imperialist strategy in the region has taken a hit.
The Rift Valley - one of the birthplaces of mankind.
Mar 7 2008 16:54
#15
The Kenyan "power sharing" deal, between Odinga and Kibaki, due to go to its parliament this week, is short on detail. Both sides have already given diametrcially opposed briefings. The deal represents a potential advance for British imperialist interests in the region as opposed to those of the US.
On Wednesday March 5, BBC radio and teletext (but not the World Service) reported that it "understood" that the US-backed Kabaki government had, during and just after the election, met leaders of the Mungiki criminal sect at the presidential palace and provided them with arms and police protection in order to defend the government's interests, particularly in the Rift Valley.
The repeated use of the phrase in the news bulletins, that "the BBC understands" in this respect is interesting. Such an "understanding" reported as fact would probably have to at least be cleared by the Foreign Office, if it didn't emanate from there itself. At the highest level of the Foreign Office and well involved in Kenyan "negotiations", is Lord Malloch Brown, himself a clear expression in the present Labour government of anti-Americanism with respect of both countries imperialist interests. The recent and present +role of Malloch-Brown in Keynan politics and the timing of the "understanding" of the BBC would seem to me to underline the clash of British and American imperialism in this vital strategic area.
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Keyna was the great economic miracle of the 1980s. I haven't got the details to hand but Britain has a great influnce here and recently there were reports of tensions between Britian and the USA over factions to back.
It clearly demonstrates the decomposition of capitalism that this economic "miracle" has descended into this abyss. It also clearly shows the true value of democracy.