Lakota Nation declares independence

OK, there may be very real limitations on the effect/usefulness of the Lakotah's action here. All the same, some perspective on the Lakotah people (from their website):

Morality-
Lakotah men have a life expectancy of less than 44 years, lowest of any country in the World (excluding AIDS) including Haiti.
Lakotah death rate is the highest in the United States.
The Lakotah infant mortality rate is 300% more than the U.S. Average.
Teenage suicide rate is 150% higher than the U.S national average for this group.

Drugs & Alcohol-
More than half the Reservation’s adults battle addiction and disease.
Alcoholism affects 8 in 10 families.

Incarceration-
Indian children incarceration rate 40% higher than whites.
In South Dakota, 21 percent of state prisoners were Native.
Indians have the second largest state prison incarceration rate in the nation.

Disease-
The Tuberculosis rate on Lakotah reservations is approx 800% higher than the U.S national average.
Cervical cancer is 500% higher than the U.S national average.
The rate of diabetes is 800% higher than the U.S national average.
Federal Commodity Food Program provides high sugar foods that kill Native people through diabetes and heart disease.

Poverty-
Median income is approximately $2,600 to $3,500 per year.
97% of our Lakotah people live below the poverty line.
Many families cannot afford heating oil, wood or propane and many residents use ovens to heat their homes.

Housing-
Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing).
1/3 of the homes lack basic clean water and sewage while 40% lack electricity.
60% of Reservation families have no telephone.
60% of housing is infected with potentially fatal black molds.
There is an estimated average of 17 people living in each family home (may only have two to three rooms). Some homes, built for 6 to 8 people, have up to 30 people living in them.

Unemployment-
Unemployment rates on our reservations is 85% or higher.

Threatened Culture-
Only 14% of the Lakotah population can speak Lakotah language.
The language is not being shared inter-generationally, today, the average Lakotah speaker is 65 years old.
Our lakotah language is an Endangered Language, on the verge of extinction.

Those stats seem extremely similar to stats on Irish Travellers. They are appalling but not an argument for 'independence'. Also your use of the word country is a bit strange, surely the Lakota are a group not a country?

wdh3 is quoting directly from the website.
BB its not fair to assess whats happening with the tribal people in the US in the same framework as travellers.

Right he's quoting directly from the website, did I imply he made it up? Not that I was assessing things in relation to Irish Travellers just pointing out that the stats seem similar, and why wouldn't they? I'm not saying its the same or anything. I still don't think there is an argument for 'independence' or that independence is even possible.

Out of interest do you know anything about the Travellers I'm referring to?

Which Lakotas in the 21st century have a pre-proletarian conciousness? Thats the most hilarious assertion I've heard in a long time.

No. Not correcto. I'm jewish. Do I have a pre-roman conciousness? Or regardless of however I culturally identify do I live under capitalism? You're absurdo.

Yeah zara that seems absurd to me and all. It'd be like arguing that because loyalists/unionists and republicans/nationalists prioritise what are essentially communal interests and politics over class interests that they are tribal as opposed to proletarian.

I think there's a few Basque, Corsican and Brittany nationalists that would disagree with you on that.

zarathustra you are a fucking retard, a fucking embarrassment to anarchism, which is saying something.

Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming? Who in their right mind would even wanna claim that territory for a nation? Eeesh.

I like Montana. I go there all the time.

That place looks like the moon. Freaks me out.

I walked out of my hotel in Bozeman one morning and there was this old guy playing the banjo on a steamer trunk. Montana rules. Plus awesome steaks.

I almost threw down with a Billy Ray Cyrus looking dude at a bar in Butte once. Its always been a dream of mine to kick the shit out of a cowboy. Too bad his buddy talked him down.

You're never going to be able to foment a modern peasant uprising in the US with that kind of attitude.

I kind of agree with Zara.

The problem is that the Lakota have never really been incorporated into capitalism. There are families on the Pine Ridge, etc. who have never had full time wage labor, ever. Not just a couple of generations, I mean never. So the situation isn't the same as the Basques, Corsicans, etc. So they don't have Ulsterior motives.

Ironically, the closest class the recognized tribes would be identified with would be the classic European aristocracy as most tribal members on reservations survive on monies recieved for hereditary land rights ie. rents. via. the Federal Gov't. The problem is, as I've stated before on this thread, that the Federal Go't has been defrauding the tribes for decades/centuries. Now the tribes have some money to pay for lawyers and the feds are sweating - and not in lodges.

I have an ex who is a traditional Lakota. I asked her opinions regarding Means' proclaimation. She laughed and said her folks at Pine Ridge are amoused and consider it a interesting provocation/grandstanding by Means.

Montana is too eastern for my liking.

Dude. Do you actually agree that "they" have a "pre-proletarian conciousness" or do you just agree that the Lakota political play is a positive thing? C'mon. Pre-proletarian conciuosness? That shit's nutty as hell.

Don't worry. Pretty sure he was just dressing the part for a night out. I would probably think twice about getting into it with some real-deal tough-ass cow herder.

Duke,

What I'm saying is they don't fall into the typical marxian catagory of "proletarian". That's why I *kind of* agree. Are they pre-prole? No. They are one of those strange social anomalies which are different. They live inside and beside capitalism at the same time.

Fine. I can live with that. Except for the conciousness thing. I mean they do read newspapers and shit. They got pickup trucks. There's tv and radio. They don't live on Dinotopia Island. I spent a decent amount of time on reservations when I was younger. I could always buy smokes, beer and a snickers. Thats all I'm sayin.

We agree. Better an indian bar than a logger bar.

Was reading an article from LiP magazine last night:

Winona LaDuke "Islands in a continent: an indiginous view of north america"

http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featladuke_68_p1.htm

which may be of interest.