Greece unrest updates thread

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canton
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Dec 23 2008 02:04

distributed 50 leaflets in ipswich today. they contained a brief summary of the last few days developments, including a statement about the disappearance of reports on the situation in the mainstream media as well as links to the occupied london blog and the libcom updates. gonna do some more tomorrow.

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jef costello
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Dec 23 2008 02:08

nice work canton.
If you put up a copy of the leaflet then maybe someone else could use it as well, I'd be interested to see it, I'm sure others would be too.

devil hoof
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Dec 23 2008 03:32

Open Letter of Support for the Uprising in Greece

The following was sent to various United States press organs (as it originated at a U.S. Greek consulate demo) and will be sent again to more papers etc., in the U.S. and elsewhere as more individuals and groups add their names. If folks would like to add their names they can email:
devilhoof@devinhoffplatform.com

"We are writing as a group of world citizens to tell you that we are saddened by yet another police murder of a young person, Alexis Grigoropoulos. We
do not see this as an isolated incident by one "bad cop" but as the direct result of a repressive police force and repressive state. Alexis's murder sparked a fire in Greece and has touched many all over the world. We are heartened by the response of our comrades and write this letter in support of what has become a large-scale popular uprising in Greece with support worldwide. We applaud its principles and its targets - the police themselves, and the state institutions that create and feed the system of violence and oppression that they enforce.

We will stand strong in whatever ways we can with the people of Greece who are making their voices heard. This struggle does not belong to Greece alone. The problems of Greece are problems of a deeply repressive capitalist world order. What is happening on the Greek barricades is happening elsewhere and everywhere. We hope that the fruits of our struggles and uprisings will yield a better and more just world for all. The time has come and the people will not back down."

In solidarity:
The Alexander Berkman Social Club
AK Press
PM Press
Friendly Fire Collective
Hog River Collective
(and many more individuals and groups...)

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Alf
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Dec 23 2008 08:08

Cleishbotham wrote:

"Agree with Alf that the document from the General Assembly of Workers in the Liberated Building of the GSEE is the most significant yet from the point of view of showing that there is a possibility that new forms of organisation are beginning to develop..... I also think it is interesting that they have a critique of the role of the unions which echoes the communist left but then have gone on to occupy the union HQ for the vey good reason that we paid for it to be built but it is used only by bureaucrats! Perhaps this is what we should also do in other places when the time comes ..."

I agree with this. The action of the Greek workers/students is a very welcome contribution to the 'trade union debate': it's a clear statement in favour of the view that we need workers' assemblies precisely because we cannot use the union structures. At the same time, the occupation of the union HQ echoes what happened in the German revolution when revolutionary workers seized control of the buildings and printing presses formerly used by the 'traitor' organisations.

MT
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Dec 23 2008 08:46

Does anyone know the reasons of giving the GSEE building back to GSEE yesterday (or 2 days ago)?

Caiman del Barrio
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Dec 23 2008 13:41

Looks to me like a combination of fatigue and seasonal factors (although i think I'm right in saying that the 25th is historically of little importance to Greece...most Orthodox countries place more emphasis on New Year and Epiphany right?).

OL reckons the uni occupations will lift by the end of this week. More mobilisations have been called for 7th Jan, so I guess it's just a question of seeing how much momentum is lost in the intervening period.

Sotev
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Dec 23 2008 14:32

things are definitely calming down.
It's no use to pretend what was going on for 10 days or so still continues.

ofcourse, there are demos (local in districts and central), and some open assemblies (mixed: students, radicals, workers, local people) in areas of thessaloniki and athens. the central university occupations remain.
I wouldn't know if it could kick off after the holidays or something. you can't put these things on hold and the press the start button, can you?

I'd characterize what took place during the last 2 weeks or so as something between a very widespread and diffuse series of intelligent, so to speak, streetfighting/riots and an "insurrection" --perhaps the term closer to reality would be "upheaval"?, mainly because of the ability to regroup and deliberate (not only around assemblies, but also and perhaps more importantly on the street level), the absence of "blind violence", the first signs of a real internationalism, and also because of the ability to accomplish meaningful and coherent attacks on state/capital and the whole metropolis infrastructure, and to successfully transmit the content of these attacks to those not participating in the events. Ofcourse at all times only a (diverse and strong) minority took the streets.

I think the GSEE occupation was to be a sharp and short action, only to continue while there's generally serious upheaval. the assemblies of GSEE were joined by some 500 participants or so.

That there weren't any real demands whatsoever on the street (except what the leftists were saying --"down with the government of murderers" etc) should perhaps be counted in the radical character of what happened. A text called "We destroy the present because we come from the future" (it's somewhere on libcom.org) discusses this well - although perhaps too optimistically.

that's all for now

canton
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Dec 24 2008 18:07
jef costello wrote:
nice work canton.
If you put up a copy of the leaflet then maybe someone else could use it as well, I'd be interested to see it, I'm sure others would be too.

that leaflet is slightly out of date now but there should be another on the way immediately after christmas so i'll try to get that up a little quicker. it's mostly information taken from the occupied london blog anyway.

MT
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Dec 25 2008 11:13

btw, what were the official results in Alexis's autopsy report and ballistics report? there was massive disagreement and rumours that the police will fabricate the ballistics but in the end I haven't seen any info on the final report neither here nor in massmedia.

Sotev
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Dec 26 2008 12:37

Konstantina Kuneva, 44, a worker from Bulgaria and secretary of the Housekeepers and Cleaners' trade union of Athens has been attacked on 23/12.

As she was returning home in midnight, 2 unknown men poured sulfuric acid onto her face and body. She is now in critical condition, could lose her sight or worse.

Kuneva was getting threat-calls on her mobile phone to stop participating in the struggles. Her trade union was one of the most militant ones. The working conditions of the cleaners are almost barbaric.

According to an announcement by a leftist party (www.eek.gr) Kuneva and other comrades from the cleaning ladies' trade union participated in the assemblies held in the occupied GSEE building. that's not important.
the important thing is that Kuneva was fighting for her class for years.

Just a small comment...this once again proves that capital once threatened even on a tiny tiny degree, becomes absolutely ruthless. Once class antagonism breaks out openly --as happened in greece-- it's either us or them. To reconcile, to "stop for the holidays", to lose the momentum is to become victim of this terrorism. difficult times.

Bulgarian national gets Acid poured in athens

I guess more info will come later...

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Steven.
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Dec 26 2008 14:36

That's terrible... I hope she ends up okay

tsi
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Dec 26 2008 18:41

that is really terrible. I don't really know what to say to that other than that comrades should be looking to whatever way we can aid her (financially or otherwise).

Any info on who the attackers might be?? My initial suspicion, of course, is Golden Dawn possibly on mandate from either cops or from an employer.

Sotev
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Dec 28 2008 01:31

"On the 27th of December we occupied the headquarters of ISAP (Athens Piraeus Electric Railway) as a first response to the murderous attack against Konstantina Kuneva on the 23-12-2008. Sulphuric acid was thrown at her face as she was returning home from work."

the rest of the communique is at the url below. also on other languages.

Solidarity to Konstantina Kuneva

*

Acid attacks are not common at all in Greece, neither for personal reasons nor for political/social reasons.

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Django
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Dec 28 2008 09:46

This case is absolutely appalling, I've never heard of anything like this happening outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Solidarity to those who occupied ISAP.

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madashell
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Dec 28 2008 16:54
tsi wrote:
that is really terrible. I don't really know what to say to that other than that comrades should be looking to whatever way we can aid her (financially or otherwise).

From a Greek poster on urban75 re: fundraising/financial aid:

Stella wrote:
This is what I found so far :from this link
http://indy.gr/newswire/epeigon-oikonomik-enis3c7ysi-gia-tin-syndikalistria-konstantina-koyneba

5012 019021 277 Τράπεζα Πειραιώς :
Peireus Bank/
account no: 5012 019021 277

DECHEVA ELENA KUEVA KOSTADINKA NIKOLOVA
The site is in Greek, I'll see if there is anything in english
*This is fundraising for the woman attacked by acid

For the arrested during the riots
The only post I could find from IndyMedia Athens with every caution that it might not be accurate
216/34903781 στην ΕΘΝΙΚΗ ΤΡΑΠΕΖΑ (από σάιτ Αντιεξουσιαστικής Κίνησης)
216/34903781 : account number/ National bank of Greece
and the link i got it from : http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=951889
There is also a 2 day event starting tomorrow at the "Free Galaxy" (a building that has been occupied in Nea Smirni) for solidarity and support to all the arrested during the riots and there is going to be a collection there as well. The link for that (in Greek though) is : http://eleftherosgalaxias.blogspot.com/2008/12/27-2812.html
There are other groups that have been collecting money for the same reason, but nothing "official" that I could find, at least nothing at the IndyMedia's front pages

Probably best to find out more about who is posting this stuff up on indymedia before donating any money though.

Liliput
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Dec 28 2008 17:20

How can we keep abreast of the condition of her health?

Zazaban
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Dec 30 2008 01:03

The rebels have released a Manifesto; unfortunately, they are primmies.

http://shiftshapers.gnn.tv/blogs/30540/Greek_Rebels_Issue_World_Revolution_Manifesto

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Red Marriott
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Jan 2 2009 22:02

Two articles updated with chronology of events up to New Year;
http://libcom.org/library/chronology-greece-unrest-blaumachen
http://libcom.org/news/short-presentation-recent-events-athens-through-eyes-some-proletarian-participants-tptg-co

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jef costello
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Jan 5 2009 06:55

A policeman was shot and wounded last night in Athens. Two people fired Kalashnikovs as him and he was hit twice. Police are investigating whether it was the same people who fired on a riot police bus on the 23rd.

Caiman del Barrio
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Jan 6 2009 12:46

Word is it's a stitchup: http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2009/01/05/was-the-riot-cop-shooting-orchestrated-by-the-state/

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Joseph Kay
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Jan 6 2009 12:55

while states do have a long history of stuff like that, any 'evidence' for a conspiracy consisting of 'anarchists wouldn't be that stupid' is kinda stillborn imho.

Iron Column
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Jan 7 2009 11:41

Joseph,

The point is that we wouldn't have to search every time for conclusive evidence of state sponsored terror attacks, like we were natural scientists in some ahistorical void, rather that it's patently obvious the government did this to separate the avant-garde in that community from mingling with the less politicised in the demonstrations later this week. Right after this happened the government swooped in and arrested dozens of people. This was a fake attack on a cop by the Greek government. They will definitely do something bigger if they need to call in the Army at some point. If you (re)read Debord's Comments on the Society of the Spectacle, you would see that the machiavellianism of the ruling class is an established fact and that all the intelligence agencies either cooperate with or emulate one another. If there is a history of false flag attacks from the bourgeoisie, why would it seem so ridiculous to assume they are at it again when faced with the most powerful movement of the young century?

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Joseph Kay
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Jan 7 2009 12:02

i'm not saying it's ridiculous, i'm saying truth isn't simply what it's convenient to believe. in the absence of any evidence pointing to urban guerrila types (particularly verified comminiqués claiming responsibility or whatever), i'm happy to extend the presumption of innocence to the movement, and say it's just as if not more likely the state did it.

on the other hand i don't think you can assert the truth of this claim as "patently obvious" just because states have a history of this kind of thing, since radical leftists also have a history of idiotic counter-productive propaganda-by-the-deed/armed struggle (some comments on this shooting have said shooting cops is a good idea, insurrectionists often advocate it...).

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Red Marriott
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Jan 7 2009 19:34
iron column wrote:
If there is a history of false flag attacks from the bourgeoisie, why would it seem so ridiculous to assume they are at it again when faced with the most powerful movement of the young century?

Obviously it would be no surprise if the state did a terrorist act to justify greater repression and to disorientate a movement - but immediately taking the 'truth' of things at face value with no proof can be playing into the hands of the state - if it turns out it was an armed leftist group, then those who assured us all that it was a state provocation will be held to be untrustworthy and gullible. And if one reads Sanguinetti and Debord on the state manipulations in Italy, one realises that states can infiltrate leftist terror groups and manipulate them in the state's interests. So it's not always a simple either/or culprit.

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Alf
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Jan 7 2009 22:21

It's true that saying that "it's patently obvious" that the state was behind this particular act oversteps the mark because we don't know much about the circumstances around it, but I am in agreement with Iron Column's overall approach to the machiavellianism of the bourgeoisie.

With regard to armed leftist groups - it's very rare for them to escape some kind of state influence and/or inflitration. In many 'peripheral' regions where there is an open inter-imperialist conflict going on, they frequently become agents of some 'foreign' state power. In Europe I would think that the example of the Red Brigades is more relevant. They certainly tried to establish links with 'foreign' powers but it was the domestic Italian state which was the main source of manipulation, not in an inter-imperialist context but as a weapon against the working class. This would certainly be the main concern of the Greek state at present.

baboon
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Jan 8 2009 13:07

I too agree with Iron Column's basic approach though I don't think in this case it's "patently obvious". But his point that the machiavellianism of the bourgeoisie cannot be underestimated is correct. There's been a tendency to want to subvert political disagreement and stifle discussion by demanding "proofs" and "evidence" (never enough) in the way of a bourgeois law court. The important point is the framework of the machiavellianism of the bourgeoisie.

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Joseph Kay
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Jan 8 2009 14:01
baboon wrote:
There's been a tendency to want to subvert political disagreement and stifle discussion by demanding "proofs" and "evidence" (never enough) in the way of a bourgeois law court.

evidence is bourgeois. you heard it here first.

baboon wrote:
The important point is the framework of the machiavellianism of the bourgeoisie.

yes, but fixating on the fact the bourgeoisie do conspire does the opposite of what you intend and ends up implying it's the conspiracy that's the problem not the bourgeoisie. they will always organise against us, more coherently the more threatening we are. whether they are or aren't in a particular instance is rarely important; in the case of this shooting it's sufficient to point out the long history of state 'false flags' (P2OG etc), and nonchalantly shrug off the accusations it's done by leftists as baseless until such a point as it's proved beyond doubt (this isn't a 'bourgeois' standard, it's just basic reason).

we (potentially) shoot ourselves in the foot by denying no left groups would be so stupid, there's so much on the left that makes me think 'if they didn't exist the state would have to invent them' - i'm sure some stuff is state infilitrated but i've known enough idiots - hell i've been one - to know this isn't always necessary. so whether there's a conspiracy or not the important thing is a) this act is detrimental to the movement and b) the state will try and use it to restore its authority and divide the movement.

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Jan 8 2009 14:29
baboon wrote:
There's been a tendency to want to subvert political disagreement and stifle discussion by demanding "proofs" and "evidence" (never enough) in the way of a bourgeois law court. The important point is the framework of the machiavellianism of the bourgeoisie.

Yawn... the tendency you refer to is the fact that you & co. have repeatedly been caught out by myself and others trying to assert your wild speculation as historical fact - just two examples;
http://libcom.org/forums/history/fall-thatcher-regime-and-history
http://libcom.org/forums/history/collapse-eastern-bloc-imperialism-1992-balkan-war-13122007
When this has been pointed out as falsehood you have then, in the absence of any credible response, resorted to name-calling such as "shyster lawyer". Now you are yet again misrepresenting history by the way you describe responses to your past inaccuracies. Those who can read can judge for themselves and bear it in mind when dealing with you.

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Steven.
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Jan 8 2009 19:22

Can we please now cease this discussion about who might be responsible for the shooting and just continue this as a place for people to post updates. If people wish to continue the discussion on the shooting please start a new thread. Thanks.

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Steven.
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Jan 8 2009 19:24
jef costello wrote:
An account from Athens. I've not had the chance to read it all through but it might be worth tidying up for the library.

yeah it looks good - if you had time to do this at some point that would be great.