Prison officers set to launch unlawful strike

out of interest - on what grounds would you not support the action?

Do you offer support on a sector by sector basis?

Just been judged as illegal, injunction's been granted, although listening to the unions spokesman it sounds a lot like they'll stay out anyway.

the important elements from my perpspective are:

1) It puts the government in the right shitter - which is good & lots of civil servants will be scurrying around in a panic

2) It is good to see strike action take place and workers to realise the collective strength they hold together and that united they hold much power and that they can improve their working conditions. It may inspire others & strengthen the labour movement.

3) Its good to see the anti union laws tested and flouted.

I can see why others don't or won't support them though...

Well, I imagine the reasons for John.'s caution is the role prison officers play in the apparatus of repression although they're not quite the same as the police who will confront workers directly on the pickets and on the street.

There was a discussion here about whether the police could even be counted as "working class", let alone whether other workers could extend solidarity towards them.

I have no doubt at all that the police themselves are utterly divorced from the working class. Prison officers and support staff are more of a grey area, so I certainly share John's caution.

Of course, John. will have his own view.

The main point of interest for me is that it shows how capitalism is being compelled to attack even those that work for their principle organs of defence. There was a particularly violent attack on police support workers in Devon a couple of years ago which triggered a mass walkout. The ICC reported on it here. The union was completely sidelined in this action, one bloke even said on the local news (as the union tried to claim credit) something along the lines of "you didn't do this, we did!". Hardly a surprise considering the union actually agreed to the wage cuts!

It's always a bad idea for a King to treat his guards like crap. Same goes for bourgeois and their protectors, don't you think? If they're doing it, it's because there are compelling reasons. Under Thatcher the police were given quite a cushy number because the government were reinforcing them in order to contain struggles. Today the opposite is the case. One answer might be the lack of struggles recently, although there are signs this is changing and considering the reinforcement the bourgeoisie have given to other parts of the police state it seems unlikely they are blind to this. Which leaves their capacity to actually pay for it.

As for Hurricane Dean, it's difficult to argue any specific weather event is a product of global warming, but in general the trend for extreme weather to increase is clear. While global warming is a product of capitalism as a whole, in both ascendent and decadent periods, the complete inability for capitalism to do anything about it is a far more recent phenomenon. And this is not because they are not aware of the problem! Numerous reports from many governments and other organisations warn about the consequences to come, even outline what needs to be done about it, but still nothing is actually done. Even a couple of decades ago, capital was still capable of taking minimal measures to tackle serious problems (like the phasing out of CFCs) - today, the paralysis is evident for all to see. Other natural disasters, while not caused by capitalism, are exacerbated by its decay. For example, the Asian Tsunami and others.

Both these phenomena point to a reduction to capitalism's "room for manouvre" on all fronts, don't you think?

if you're against this strike do you approve of those scabbing on it?

innit.

Prison officers are cunts. I'm all for them going on strike, hope it's a really long one.

who is 'against' the strike? - john - 'I don't support this'

Are you supporting it then Jack?

also - so you're not proferring support to the POA strikers because you think they are cunts....do you get to know all the striking posties for example on a personal level - I'm pretty sure some of them are cunts as well, chances are - they won't all be as 'sound as a pound' working class salt of the earth type...

where does this industry specific soldarity end and start? civil servants? nuclear power station workers? munitions workers? workers in intensive farming,? teachers? traffic wardens... ?

and could you just answer the question instead of wriggling - do you support scabs of this strike or not.

Ta.

Asking whether POs are "cunts" are not is hardly the question. I've met perfectly nice coppers in my time who genuinely believe they're doing something positive for society, don't get involved in the usual corruption (beating people up, etc). It doesn't change the fact that even if you could polish their halos and call them saints, they are still part of the state and therefore the class enemy.

This is far more to the point. I wouldn't have a problem in supporting strikes by any of these sectors, except the civil servants. Even here, there is a vast difference between an admin worker at the benefits office and an analyst in the foreign office. The former I'd support without hesitation, just as I'd support those support staff in the police I mentioned earlier.

The point is that the police (and to a lesser extend POs) are involved in direct repression against the working class (just as MI5, etc. monitor its activities). How can the class extend solidarity to these sectors when they will be pitted against them in struggles?

Well delivering post isn't quite the same as locking people up for a living is it!

I think it's also interesting that the POA are doing this for another reason. They're one of the few unions in this country who aren't tied to Labour one way or another, like even non-affiliated ones like the NUT are. The POA don't care about whether their action affects Labour's election chances - they're out for their own interests - in this case higher pay, though they also have grievances about conditions and attacks on them by inmates. It shows how shit the rest of the unions are that it takes a union whose members are likely to be fairly right wing to take on the anti-union laws.

Regards,

Martin

Having written that, I've just read that they're going back to work as of 7pm just gone.

Regards,

Martin

I posted that on MATB.

Anyway whether we call it support or not, we should all be following this strike closely and certainly it should be getting coverage on libcom. If they win on this it really fucks the governments public sector pay freeze/drop up the shiter.

Also

But doesn't this show that class struggle isn't a matter of 'ideas', that the reality of it always disrupts the ideological realm.

Revol,

Don't disagree about the reality vs ideas, more the point that other groups of workers face the same issues and could take action. However, compare the POA's response to this injunction, which has been reluctant and mindful of the rank and file, with the T&G at Gate Gourmet (the last time I can remember a high profile unlawful action).

The govt are going to be having "talks" with the POA on Friday. I agree that if they get any concessions this could spread. THe shock of it - workers using tactics that might work !

Regards,

Martin

Well, I would "support" this strike if there were immediate and tangable benefits for real live working class human beings (as there may well be as mentionined the effects on a sector wide scale), Much the same as I would support the ritualistic burning of puppies, if for some reason it would have an overall benifit to society.
As for supporting these bitches out of some deference to the idea of striking in general, I must be forgiven for wishing that this strike be broken by the spontaneuos infection of leprosy of all said individuals.
As for the police vs. cops analysis I would argue that, personality wise, the prison guards are waaaaaaaaay worse than cops, in that the police at least have to make occasional attempts to pass themselves off as serving a credible interest to society, whereas the guards are hidden from sight and are free to live out thier wildest sadomaschist fantasies without a hint of oversight.
Btw, does anyone have anyone have any general knowledge as to who (police vs guards) have been more willing to side with us in past struggles?

Don't know about that now, in the Troubles only a few screws got smoked up, a hell of a alot less than cops, the paramilitary prisoners despised the police much more than the PO's, of course the fact that there was a very peculiar power relationship in Northern Irish prisoners during the troubles (the wings were essentially self managed by the paramilitary hieracrchies) would have made quite a difference, brutality between screws and prisoners from either side would have been seen as detrimental on both sides, causing more problems for both than it was worth.

Would putting the government on the back foot during a crucial round of public sector pay claims be of tangible benefit to real live working class human beings?

Yeah I think there's a difference between thinking it's a good thing and 'support'. Looks like some people took advantage of it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6969018.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/6968835.stm

yep.

"Would putting the government on the back foot during a crucial round of public sector pay claims be of tangible benefit to real live working class human beings?"

Yes of course. Nonetheless thier still a bunch of jerks and I cringe to here them labled as "workers" and hate to see people present them as anything other than scum just because they have the good sense to occasionaly use our tactics and strategies (strikes, unions).

christ almighty, it's like a caricature of a shit class war article.

If your criticism of the police and prison service rests on them being 'nothing more than scum' you're in big trouble, afterall what are you going to do when you meet decent cops or screws, flip the cognitive disonance switch or change your political position. It has very little to do with cops or PO's being 'scum' or someother hysterical punk rock hyperbole, personally I've had dealings with cops who are lovely, others that are complete cunts and others i'm ambivalent about. I'm capable of understanding the role of the police in society without having to caricature them into monsters.

I'm interested in this as I know there is something of an effort to set up a union in the british army to defend commonwealth solidiers from racism (specifically them as far as I remember, not black britons).....not really sure of it...surely an army where you have soldiers doing something like that is then more likely to refuse combat in other instances. I'm also mindful that police and prisoners officers associations have tended to demand things like bigger and better weapons for themselves, so you might have rank and file solidiers emboldened by resisting racism from officers and other soldiers, or by resisting their day to day conditions in other ways, pushing for more of a carte blanche in 'counter-insurgency', ie they get to whack anyone that looks dangerous.

Interesting reaction reported from some inmates in the guardian.

Full story here

Meh, I've heard worse insults.

I don't think you could have gotten me any more twisted if you tried. I've actually been working with a cop the last few days (as in a co-worker who is also a cop, not as in "collaborating"!) and we get along swimmingly. I find him to be a plesant enough person who's unique insight and experiance I enjoy having access to. We spent about an hour yesterday discussing the war and and his experiance serving in the Gulf war, and we were easily in agreement with the total bullshitness of the current catastrophy in Iraq, amongst other things. So no, I'm not incapable of seeing the person behind the badge, and indeed I realize the importantance of understanding what makes these people tick.

That being said, what this guy goes at night and does is complete bullshit, and I hardly think it's of any consolation to some black dude whose head he may decide to crack open, that in another context he may be a decent enough person. Im no absolutionist, and I'd say to (almost) any cop, rightwinger, fed, spy, etc. etc. that as soon as you get your politics right, I'll take you in with open arms. Hell I'll even buy the first few rounds!

PFFFFT! Punks hardly have a monopoly on cop hating.
And let the record also show that I am not currently, nor have I even been at any time in the past, a fan of punk. not even slightly.

Yes agreed. But the fact remains that most of them are indeed bitches. Thats the type of personality that gravitates toward such jobs, thats thier training, and thats what thier peers tend to encourage.

I agree with the approach taken up by John and Demogorgon, also with revol's careful distinction between the individual and the function. We can't support prison officers as a category any more than we can support the police. At the same time, it's evident that this action does reflect a much wider discontent, just as the police can in certain situations be affected by major class movements. In a mass strike or revolutionary situation, this is an element which can serve to decompose the repressive apparatus.

We are obviously not in such a situation; but the government has certainly seized on the prison officers' action to issue a more general warning to the entire public sector.

well the amount of violence in prisons has went up massively in recent years with the increasing prison population and that is one of the main issues they are pushing too.

I'd imagine the fact they don't have a four pathetic half day rolling stoppages and ritualised union bleating goes quite some way in explaining the militancyof it. They have to strike fast and hard because they can't afford pathetic symbolic pickets cos no one is going to risk the sack/ disciplinary for such pathetic ineffective actions.

There is also a strong solidarity amongst PO's, it's a job afterall that creates seige mentalities and you have to look out for each other, also like the police and army, it has strong class and management boundaries, it isn't some poncey open plan, team and team leader bollox.