SEIU International goons attack Labor Notes Conference

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OliverTwister's picture
OliverTwister
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Apr 19 2008 18:10
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When anarchists represent 5% of organized workers

Honest question: what do you mean by this? Do you mean 5% of organized workers being anarchists? 5% of union staffers being anarchists? Somewhere in the middle?

Honestly sometimes I could guess that 5% of union staffers are ex-IWWs/anarchists

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Felix Frost
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Apr 19 2008 18:44
thugarchist wrote:
Felix Frost wrote:
Yeah, and watch out for those real workers. Apparently they don't like anarchists with clear principles:

Not true. Real workers have just never heard of anarchists, don't know any and wouldn't care if they did. When anarchists represent 5% of organized workers then you might be able to say something meaningful. Until then anarchists are generally meaningless in organized labor. Do you disagree? RR suggested that anarchism is a fringe movement with nothing substantive to add currently. You seem to be disagreeing with him. What significant (or even trivial) influence do you think anarchists have in the realm of organized labor currently?

No, what RR said was that anarchists were too obsessed with process and needed to be beaten up more often.

Obviously anarchists in the US have virtually no influence in the realm of organized labor, and I can't imagine anyone on here arguing otherwise.

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Apr 19 2008 22:40
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
When anarchists represent 5% of organized workers

Honest question: what do you mean by this? Do you mean 5% of organized workers being anarchists? 5% of union staffers being anarchists? Somewhere in the middle?

Honestly sometimes I could guess that 5% of union staffers are ex-IWWs/anarchists

You know pretty well through conversations both public and private with me over several years that I don't consider staffers to be workers in that they are not exploited by capital and also that when I speak about anarchist involvement within unions I'm discussing rank n file involvement (and actively discourage anarchists from working as staff).

However, claiming that 5% of staff are either anarchists or ex-wobs is clearly untrue.

revolutionrugger
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Apr 20 2008 00:49
thugarchist wrote:

However, claiming that 5% of staff are either anarchists or ex-wobs is clearly untrue.

Thank god.

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OliverTwister
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Apr 20 2008 01:16

it was an honest question: what do you mean by representing 5% if organized workers?

5% of shop-stewards?

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Apr 20 2008 02:43
OliverTwister wrote:
it was an honest question: what do you mean by representing 5% if organized workers?

5% of shop-stewards?

Its an idiotic question. Stop trying to pretend to use what you think is union speak. If 5% of organized rank n file workers were anarchists.

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Apr 20 2008 02:47
revolutionrugger wrote:
thugarchist wrote:

However, claiming that 5% of staff are either anarchists or ex-wobs is clearly untrue.

Thank god.

Athough I'd say there's a higher % of anarchists and ex-wobs who are staff than the % of anarchists and ex-wobs who don't have college degrees.

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Apr 20 2008 03:02

Anyhoo, back to the topic: Video Expose of the dangerous attack by seiu members. Clearly not a protest. An assault. roll eyes http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4810553639158828364&q=&hl=en

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Apr 20 2008 03:41

i tend to agree with duke about numbers being important. the CGT in Spain gets 8 percent of the vote (about a milion) in union elections in Spain and is important in a number of areas of struggle. a union the size of CGT in the USA would have 300,000 members. that would be a huge fucking victory. but it would still be a minority struggling. i know many anarchists don't like CGT's "compromises" to get there. I think they are mistaken.

blackstarbhoy
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Apr 20 2008 09:09

Duke has become nothing more than a hack. he shouldnt be taken seriously when anarchists are trying to have discussions about developing independent labor approaches. his interests are with the union he works for.

as for the "attack", the video really dosent prove anything. Labor Notes/Solidarity over emphasized the event to suit there own purpose, but the video dosnet really show the invasion or the few punch ups that did occure when SEIU attempted to take the hall and stage.

the real point is that there is a major conflict between SEIU and CNA and in the SEIU itself. it is over membership and dues. somewhere in there and depending on who, varying levels of actual concern for that membership exist. but still, it is a fight over membership and dues. neither side is great or pure or correct. all sides raid each other and have conducted themselves in pretty shitty ways.

Duke some many posts back said something to the effect of good for the SEIU, if he were there he'd be pushing and trying to take the hall too. wow. Duke really wants to be a thugachrist.

the same SEIU local also brought its folks out to a pro-Kilpatrick event in Detroit, the mayor is a gangster and used 9million of detroits dollars (in a court settlement to two former cops who were gonna blow the whistle on him) to try and cover up 1) an affair with his chief of staff, 2) the murder of a stripper outside of his mansion. the SEIU joined forces with Al Sharptons National Action Network, Kwame Kilpatricks top aides, and the New Black Panther Party. The whole of them tried to intimidate AFSCME locals and members of the Call Em Out Coalition (mostly anti-Kwame Black folks). SEIU people ripped up AFSCME signs and with the New Black Panther Party roughed some folks up. The groups then called anti-Kwame protesters racist suburbanites (although most of the Afscme people are city workers who live in the city and have that distinct lower class look as oppossed to the natty dressed SEIU and Kwame forces).

these are the forces that are at play here and the ones Duke was all cheering for. good one fuck wit.

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Apr 20 2008 15:29
blackstarbhoy wrote:
Duke has become nothing more than a hack. he shouldnt be taken seriously when anarchists are trying to have discussions about developing independent labor approaches. his interests are with the union he works for.

as for the "attack", the video really dosent prove anything. Labor Notes/Solidarity over emphasized the event to suit there own purpose, but the video dosnet really show the invasion or the few punch ups that did occure when SEIU attempted to take the hall and stage.

the real point is that there is a major conflict between SEIU and CNA and in the SEIU itself. it is over membership and dues. somewhere in there and depending on who, varying levels of actual concern for that membership exist. but still, it is a fight over membership and dues. neither side is great or pure or correct. all sides raid each other and have conducted themselves in pretty shitty ways.

Duke some many posts back said something to the effect of good for the SEIU, if he were there he'd be pushing and trying to take the hall too. wow. Duke really wants to be a thugachrist.

the same SEIU local also brought its folks out to a pro-Kilpatrick event in Detroit, the mayor is a gangster and used 9million of detroits dollars (in a court settlement to two former cops who were gonna blow the whistle on him) to try and cover up 1) an affair with his chief of staff, 2) the murder of a stripper outside of his mansion. the SEIU joined forces with Al Sharptons National Action Network, Kwame Kilpatricks top aides, and the New Black Panther Party. The whole of them tried to intimidate AFSCME locals and members of the Call Em Out Coalition (mostly anti-Kwame Black folks). SEIU people ripped up AFSCME signs and with the New Black Panther Party roughed some folks up. The groups then called anti-Kwame protesters racist suburbanites (although most of the Afscme people are city workers who live in the city and have that distinct lower class look as oppossed to the natty dressed SEIU and Kwame forces).

these are the forces that are at play here and the ones Duke was all cheering for. good one fuck wit.

With the exception of the hack insult (I already used that in this thread - you should at least try to be innovative dude) and the specific Detroit weirdness. You just made similar arguments as mine. Hate to tell you. Perhaps you should go read beack through the thread where a number of folks suggest at different points that it makes no sense for anarchists to not recognize that this is a complicated powerplay between a number of forces. Its almost like you make political decisions cause of some old mom jokes your buddy mathias asked me to make to fuck with you or something...

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 20 2008 15:39

Oddly enough, after reading this thread yesterday morning and thinking "fuck it, American union hacks should attack each other and then maybe there'll be less of them and I'm guessing the hospitals won't have internet connections and perhaps they'll stop polluting Libcom with their mindless defenses of the status quo" then by chance I yesterday met a Mexican militant for the bottle factory workers in San Luis who was there. He says they was trying to make a dinner when a the mainstream shit national union tried to bust in and attack the "fairly combative statewide union". He then commented how some horrifically earnest and embarassed gringo said to him "shit, bet this doesn't happen in Mexico", a comment which caused wry laughs all around...seeing as how the mainstream Mexican union movement is full of union hacks instigating workers to attack members of "rival" unions until the cops storm in and start shooting to shut them up.

Thug really though, you're a retard but not that retarded, perhaps you're self-aware enough to notice how you've completely abandoned any sort of analysis to defend Your Organisation. In my book that's leftist sectarian posturing.

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Apr 20 2008 15:42
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Oddly enough, after reading this thread yesterday morning and thinking "fuck it, American union hacks should attack each other and then maybe there'll be less of them and I'm guessing the hospitals won't have internet connections and perhaps they'll stop polluting Libcom with their mindless defenses of the status quo" then by chance I yesterday met a Mexican militant for the bottle factory workers in San Luis who was there. He says they was trying to make a dinner when a the mainstream shit national union tried to bust in and attack the "fairly combative statewide union". He then commented how some horrifically earnest and embarassed gringo said to him "shit, bet this doesn't happen in Mexico", a comment which caused wry laughs all around...seeing as how the mainstream Mexican union movement is full of union hacks instigating workers to attack members of "rival" unions until the cops storm in and start shooting to shut them up.

Thug really though, you're a retard but not that retarded, perhaps you're self-aware enough to notice how you've completely abandoned any sort of analysis to defend Your Organisation. In my book that's leftist sectarian posturing.

I'm not a leftist. I'll accept sectarian posturing though.

onthemarch
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Apr 24 2008 21:17

At last, SEIU's vile thuggery has been caught on film!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC95ZMRnkrQ

Don't be fooled by those toddlers. They have murder in their eyes...

My favorite part is near the end when the SEIU members start leaving and the Labor Notes people start chaning "Si, se puede!" "Yes, they can" what? Provide a forum for union busters? Call the cops to eject a crowd of angry Black workers and their children (or wait... thugs. That's what we call those people right?) from the hotel? Hilarious.

pghwob
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Apr 25 2008 00:52

Do SEIU members pay you for the time spent on libcom?

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 25 2008 02:01

That's something I ask myself far too often. Perhaps this counts under "union activity". I doubt it though, the mainstream union movement's far too one dimensional and backward to understand the benefits of these "postmodern" propaganda methods.

Also what the fuck does them being black have to do with it? God you union hacks really are fucking politico cretins.

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Apr 25 2008 09:47

Sorry to beat a dead horse. Also, don't endorse this analysis, but it confirms what SEIU members have told me. Lastly, I got this as an e-mail and didn't get a link, so I posted the whole thing.

Here's the article:

The roots of the crisis in the SEIU

BRIAN CRUZ and LARRY BRADSHAW, members of SEIU Local 1021 in the Bay Area and delegates to the union's convention in June, explain the crisis in their union.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
DETAILS OF the clash between the nation's largest union, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), and the smaller California Nurses Association (CNA) can be confusing--including, most recently, the accusation that the CNA derailed an SEIU organizing drive in Ohio.

Next came the violent disruption by SEIU officials and members at the Labor Notes conference in Dearborn, Mich., to try and shut down a scheduled speech by a CNA leader.

On the surface, SEIU's attack on the Labor Notes conference was the result of the rival unions' battle over registered nurses in Ohio. However, the conflict runs much deeper. SEIU President Andy Stern's strategy of partnering with employers to increase union membership--which is what the CNA was opposing in Ohio--has in recent months undergone intense scrutiny and criticism within our union.

Stern's pursuit of partnership is the source of the major rift between the leadership at the SEIU International office in Washington, D.C., and the top officials of the 140,000-member West Coast SEIU local known as United Healthcare Workers-West (UHW). Member opposition to partnership provides fuel for the union democracy movement embodied in the new group, SEIU Member Activists for Reform Today (SMART).

In order for pro-democracy labor activists to take advantage of all the opportunities opening up because of the challenge to Stern, it is important to not simply take sides on the Ohio issue, but to use it to challenge the business union practices of SEIU that pit unions against each other.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
THE SAGA began in Catholic Healthcare Partners (CHP) hospitals in Ohio, where last month, some 8,000 health care workers were to have union elections, but under questionable circumstances.

Although SEIU had tried for years to organize these facilities with little success, a deal had apparently been struck between CHP and SEIU, and in February, CHP filed for a union election to happen within two weeks.

Management used an "RM petition" in which an employer can petition the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) to have a union election without demonstrating employee support for the union. It is thus an excellent tool for employers who favor one union over another.

As part of the agreement between SEIU and CHP, neither side would actively campaign during the union vote, bringing new meaning to what is often called a "neutrality agreement."

According to the magazine Labor Notes, a letter to the staffers at St. Regis hospital in Lima, Ohio, read, "To avoid the conflict and negative tension typically caused by organizing campaigns...neither managers nor union representatives will approach you or even answer questions if you approach them."

Thus, any of the workers at these hospitals who wanted to participate in the unionization drive were quickly shuffled into SEIU's organize-the-employers campaign, despite their good intentions.

One nurse at Mercy Western Hills hospital in Cincinnati remarked, "It became apparent that if we were going to get anywhere we needed to work from the top of the organization down...In the last year and a half, there hasn't been much door-to-door contact. I would tell people, we're working on a different level to make sure we could have an election without the intimidation we saw at the beginning of the campaign."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
UNDER THESE circumstances, in which a union is not bargaining from a position of strength, one can only expect concessions to management and a sweetheart deal--good for the boss, bad for the workers.

Furthermore, such a deal would have set a low standard for organizing health care workers nationwide. And it didn't take long for the industry to show its support. According to the Springfield (Ohio) News-Sun, "The Ohio Hospital Association called the non-interference agreement between CHP and the SEIU refreshing."

At this point, the CNA had no previous base of support within the hospitals and no previous plans to organize them. But it was stuck in a Catch-22.

The CNA could let the election go on as planned, and watch SEIU be selected as the de facto choice for health care employers in future campaigns, undermining the CNA's and other unions' campaigns. This type of union-employer collusion is exactly what happened in California in 2003, when SEIU cut a deal with Tenet Hospitals that prevented the CNA from even appearing on the election ballot, even though both unions had been campaigning there.

Or instead, the CNA could challenge the vote at CHP, where it had even less support than SEIU, due to the fact that the CNA is far smaller than SEIU and lacks its resources. By intervening, the CNA took the chance that the Ohio nurses wouldn't join any union.

The CNA decided to challenge CHP. Upon hearing of the employer-initiated union election, the CNA sent staff to Ohio to campaign against SEIU, calling the process a "rigged scam" in which SEIU would accept a substandard contract.

Unfortunately, part of the CNA's argument was that nurses should be in a separate union from other workers in the hospital. SEIU has shown, however, that organizing on an industrial basis doesn't necessarily lead to good contracts.

Feeling the heat, SEIU asked to have the election stopped, and the employers obliged. Since then, SEIU has been calling the CNA "union-busters" nonstop--on its anti-CNA Web site, in its press releases, outside CNA members' homes and, most notoriously, at the recent Labor Notes conference in Michigan.

On April 12, seven busloads of SEIU members and staff gathered in front of the Hyatt Regency in Dearborn, Mich., to protest against Rose Ann DeMoro, executive director of the CNA, at the Labor Notes banquet. DeMoro had earlier decided to skip the conference because of security concerns, but that didn't prevent what happened next.

An open letter to SEIU from SMART members who attended the Labor Notes conference recounts:

When conference participants (mostly rank-and-filers from unions around the country) tried to stop protesters from disrupting the dinner, the protesters (including some SEIU staff) pushed their way through the crowd by throwing punches and shoving people to the ground. One UAW retiree who had organized strike support for American Axle workers that day was taken to the hospital with a head injury, and others suffered minor injuries. One protester rushed the stage and attempted to speak to the crowd.

Some of us saw an SEIU member, who had collapsed on the ground, being moved onto a stretcher by police and EMTs. On Sunday, SEIU's Michigan health care local posted an obituary for home health care member David Smith. It informed Smith's co-workers that "he passed away...during a rally to give healthcare workers the right to organize in Ohio."

As AFL-CIO President John Sweeney said in a statement, "There is no justification--none--for the violent attack orchestrated by SEIU." SEIU President Stern responded that Sweeney "has the power to solve the problem" by reigning in the CNA, which recently affiliated to the AFL-CIO.

Ironically, SEIU can't use AFL-CIO procedures to mediate the conflict, since Stern led his union and others out of the federation in 2005 to launch the rival Change to Win coalition.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
THE ISSUE extends far beyond Ohio. It is intimately tied to the debate over how labor can buck the trend in declining union density (the percentage of workers in unions).

The SEIU International contends that the low numbers justify an organize-at-any-cost method that surrenders many members' rights. This method of organizing, which offers concessions and support of pro-business legislation for the employer's blessing to organize, is being challenged by Sal Rosselli, president of the union's second largest local, UHW.

Rosselli led a UHW rebellion against a partnership deal with California nursing homes that allowed for the unionization of 3,000 workers.

The union and the employers lobbied the state legislature together to obtain increased funding for the industry. In exchange, employers allowed 3,000 workers to join SEIU--but only under a pre-arranged "template" contract that banned union members from speaking out on patient ratios, prohibited strikes and otherwise limited workers' rights.

Under pressure from UHW members--including a petition campaign signed by 20,000 workers--the SEIU International canceled the partnership deal in May 2007, more than four years after its inception.

But the partnership strategy wasn't abandoned. Earlier this year, the SEIU International unilaterally dissolved the union's West Coast council for bargaining with Catholic Healthcare West (CHW) in order to take the negotiations into their own hands at the national level.

According to an inside source, the union was negotiating to gain possibly 300,000 members from Catholic hospitals nationwide in exchange for a health care "reform" bill that would be lucrative for employers--while the newly organized workers would have substandard contracts.

These partnerships explain SEIU's support of bills that fall short of what is really necessary to fix our broken health care system: removing the private insurers and the establishment of a national health care system.

What's more, Stern wants the SEIU International to take control over our locals' organizing funds in order to pursue this strategy--and will try to gain approval for this at the union's convention in Puerto Rico in June.

This is not the way that unions will be rebuilt in the country.

The SEIU International's attempts to consolidate power have spurred an all-out fight within the union. UHW has been running an opposition campaign through petitions and organizing rallies, and by putting forward a platform for union democracy for the convention.

In response, the SEIU International charged that UHW violated labor law in the election of its convention delegates and demanded that the elections be rerun.

What's more, the massive mergers in California have left union activists upset about the lack of democracy. Members in Southern California are fighting the jurisdictional changes that placed them in SEIU Local 721 without a direct vote in their legacy local, 347.

In the Bay Area, members of SEIU Local 1021 are challenging its appointed leadership that broke union rules in the election for convention delegates in order to discredit pro-democracy forces, an attempt which for the most part failed.

All this has created an opening for the formation of SMART, which now has members in all the California locals and in 16 locals outside of California.

Many SEIU reformers believe the real culprit in Ohio was SEIU's employers-first strategy for organizing that invariably pits unions against each other. The best possibility to challenge it comes from within our union, not outside of it. SMART can be a vehicle for that struggle.

But any reform movement within SEIU needs to develop an analysis that criticizes the partnership model and offers a concrete alternative for workers.

By doing so, it can link the disparate and isolated struggles within the union against bad health care, bad immigration deals, privatization and public-sector cuts--and combine them with a movement for union democracy.

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Mathias
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Apr 25 2008 22:28

Everyday the labor movement gets closer and closer to Wayne Price's critique of it.

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Apr 25 2008 23:56
Mathias wrote:
Everyday the labor movement gets closer and closer to Wayne Price's critique of it.

Your existence is Wayne's critique of the labor movement.

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Apr 26 2008 00:55

thugarchist's picture
thugarchist
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Apr 26 2008 00:59

By the end of the week you'll be no different sucka.

Mathias wrote:
Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 26 2008 02:26

So has Onthemarch been banned then?

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Apr 26 2008 02:39
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
So has Onthemarch been banned then?

Why would s/he be?

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 26 2008 02:47

Perhaps you missed the deleted posts. Or perhaps you're such a sectarian cunt that you'll defend that kinda behaviour. I'm not actually sure.

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Apr 26 2008 02:51
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Perhaps you missed the deleted posts. Or perhaps you're such a sectarian cunt that you'll defend that kinda behaviour. I'm not actually sure.

Well I am a sectarian cunt but I didn't see any posts before they got deleted I guess.

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 26 2008 04:11

Well I shouldn't repeat it (LW MOMENT!!!!1!1!) but he made a really strong and harsh accusation against pghwob, which if true, should not be used for points scorign and defending your fucking union. It was really, really, really low.

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Apr 26 2008 04:15
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Well I shouldn't repeat it (LW MOMENT!!!!1!1!) but he made a really strong and harsh accusation against pghwob, which if true, should not be used for points scorign and defending your fucking union. It was really, really, really low.

Is this the goat rumor starting up again? Totally true.

onthemarch
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Apr 26 2008 04:53
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Well I shouldn't repeat it (LW MOMENT!!!!1!1!) but he made a really strong and harsh accusation against pghwob, which if true, should not be used for points scorign and defending your fucking union. It was really, really, really low.

I don't seem to be banned. And this is not really what happened. I responded to pghwob's question in the negative and then tacked on a classic rhetorical loaded question and logical fallacy. The point was that I thought pghwob's question was a bullshit one.

From what I saw of the posts after that before they were deleted, most everyone other than Alan understood the question for what it was. I mean, come on, it's a classic. Alan, an the other hand, urged that I be banned for the totally serious accusation of domestic abuse that was being made. Awesome.

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thugarchist
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Apr 26 2008 04:54

So not about his goat fetish at all then. Boring.

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Apr 26 2008 05:47