Who the fuck are Zeitgeist Movement?

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Caiman del Barrio
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May 14 2009 17:49
Who the fuck are Zeitgeist Movement?

Someone has hijacked Couchsurfing London to advertise a Zeitgeist event. The Wiki page makes them look like radical liberals, but weren't they associated with 911 conspiraloons or something?

Jason Cortez
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May 14 2009 18:01

they have posted here, so do a search or google Zeitgiest and sit back relax and the truth will be revealed slave.

Caiman del Barrio
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May 14 2009 18:29

I did Google Zeitgeist...couldn't see any conspiraloon stuff.

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jambo1
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May 14 2009 18:32

shower of arseholes,make all the right noises and then the real barking at the moon shit comes out. to be avoided at all costs.

Caiman del Barrio
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May 14 2009 18:40

OK just I need some evidence in order to kick up a shitstorm on the Couchsurfing forum.

(DEFINITELY doesn't have an exam tomorrow morning heh)

EDIT unless someone chips in with something insightful, move this to Libcommunity no?

Jason Cortez
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May 14 2009 18:40

Search LibCom there are at least three threads about it some with links.

Caiman del Barrio
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May 14 2009 19:41

Well I've found some debates on here regarding them. Are they really just a vehicle for 9/11 conspiracies? As in, that's their main focus. Cos if so, practically no mention of it on their shit.

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Khawaga
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May 14 2009 20:10

I think they changed somewhat from their first movie to the second. The second one is all about the federal reserve and how the money supply is controlled by private persons (I don't think they go as far as to blame the Juice, but structurally anti-semitic it is). As far as I am concerned ranting about the federal reserve is on the same block as the 9/11 movement.

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888
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May 14 2009 21:03

They had some kind of weird 'zeitgeist day' public event in Seattle a few weeks ago, I was planning to go to see what kind of weirdos were running it but couldn't in the end.

Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Well I've found some debates on here regarding them. Are they really just a vehicle for 9/11 conspiracies? As in, that's their main focus. Cos if so, practically no mention of it on their shit.

They also have some strange utopian sci-fi conception of a future moneyless society, based on the ideas of some guy.

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888
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May 14 2009 21:10

http://www.thevenusproject.com/introAims.php

Not as far as I can tell from a quick look through his website (except he likes zeitgeist back).

I quite like the Venus Project site but it doesn't give the impression there's much more to it beyond pretty pictures.

"What you can do to help" the Venus Project is "join the Zeitgeist movement", so...

Parker
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May 14 2009 21:29

Zeitgeist come across as anti-capitalist, but a lot of the films' ideas on the Federal Reserve, fractional reserve banking, the New World Order, etc., come straight out of the far-right conspiracy handbook.

Jason Cortez
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May 14 2009 21:29

He is great, a retro futurist with Thunderbird puppet style models. I think that it is a shame he has started using computer graphics. Is he still trying to sell Venus One- his seventies white curved buildings. I think he is just grateful that anyone is listening to him.

Thrashing_chomsky
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May 14 2009 23:17

So doesn't the 'money as debt' theory count for anything?
Is there something factual that we can take from them, removed from the conspiracy and anti-semitism?

Even a stopped clock tells the time twice a day..

dariushsokolov
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May 15 2009 00:38

No it doesn't count for much really. Blaming all the ills of capitalism on fractional reserve banking is a very old chestnut, but it's one that can sound quite convincing to people who don't know much economics. Maybe would be a good idea to write a kind of intro guide on this particular economic conspiracy theory - or does anyone know of one already?

mikus
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May 15 2009 06:05
dariushsokolov wrote:
No it doesn't count for much really. Blaming all the ills of capitalism on fractional reserve banking is a very old chestnut, but it's one that can sound quite convincing to people who don't know much economics. Maybe would be a good idea to write a kind of intro guide on this particular economic conspiracy theory - or does anyone know of one already?

This is a quite good idea. I don't know of any introductory dissection of this idea although I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find various arguments against that conspiracy theory.

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May 15 2009 12:28

"sweet old utopia techno-socialist"

i thought this summed it up pretty much...

all i got out of it was, banks are bad, oil companies are sitting on patents for clean energy cars, and scientists will solve everything and we'll sit around drinking all day.

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darren p
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May 15 2009 16:11
dariushsokolov wrote:
... Maybe would be a good idea to write a kind of intro guide on this particular economic conspiracy theory - or does anyone know of one already?

Hardy - Can Banks Create Credit (1971)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/hardcastle/creatingcredit.htm

Adam Buick - Banks, Money and Thin Air (2009)
http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/jan09/page12.html

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May 15 2009 16:35

I watched the Zeitgeist film and found it long and boring to be honest. One question though: how much truth is there behind there stuff on Christianity? Watching it, I was quite willing to believe it but the 9/11 conspiracy and banking stuff detracted from its integrity somewhat.

For those that don't know, their argument is that the story of Jesus the miracle performer, his death and resurrection pre-dates the Bible and goes back even to ancient Egyptians and their attempts to understand the world through astrology. Is there any truth in this? Or is it just as nutty as the other stuff they bang on about?

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888
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May 15 2009 17:05

There's some truth to it, but I haven't been able to find a reliable source on it. Some victorian british egyptoligist first came up with the idea.

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888
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May 15 2009 17:09
mikus wrote:
dariushsokolov wrote:
No it doesn't count for much really. Blaming all the ills of capitalism on fractional reserve banking is a very old chestnut, but it's one that can sound quite convincing to people who don't know much economics. Maybe would be a good idea to write a kind of intro guide on this particular economic conspiracy theory - or does anyone know of one already?

This is a quite good idea. I don't know of any introductory dissection of this idea although I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find various arguments against that conspiracy theory.

I find an increasing need to combat the ideas of conspiracy mentals and a pamphlet covering their basic arguments on 9/11 and the various economic ideas, as well as perhaps an explanation of the psychology/attraction of conspiracy theories, and a basic summing up of the correct ecnomic explanations, would be a really good idea.

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May 15 2009 17:19
Ed wrote:
I watched the Zeitgeist film and found it long and boring to be honest. One question though: how much truth is there behind there stuff on Christianity? Watching it, I was quite willing to believe it but the 9/11 conspiracy and banking stuff detracted from its integrity somewhat.

For those that don't know, their argument is that the story of Jesus the miracle performer, his death and resurrection pre-dates the Bible and goes back even to ancient Egyptians and their attempts to understand the world through astrology. Is there any truth in this? Or is it just as nutty as the other stuff they bang on about?

For a long time, the christian church believed that Isis and the Infant Horus was a kind of 'imperfect' forshadowing of Mary and the Infant Jesus. Our egyptology lecturer at uni even said that in one of the pope's private chambers is a mural depicting Isis and Horus.

The connections between modern religions and ancient ones are there if you look for them. Christianity wasn't formed in a vacuum, it came into being at the crossroads of many differing philisophical belief systems from east and west.

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Zanturaeon
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May 15 2009 19:31

I know a little about this. You should read "A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom" by Andrew Dickson White. Some of the stuff in the Zeitgeist movie about Christianity is true - it evolved from earlier religion. The evolution of religion is fascinating. Zoroastrianism evolves into Judaism, into Christianity, then Islam. And we are all familiar with the various sects of the latter three - themselves budding religions.

But again, you should read the book. It was written by a Christian (White) in 1898. Peace.

sphinx
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May 16 2009 02:06

888, if you haven't seen this text I wrote for Datacide yet, it may prove useful for you:

http://libcom.org/library/denial-networks-crisis-continuity-911-truth-movement

Boris Badenov
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May 16 2009 14:14
Ed wrote:

For those that don't know, their argument is that the story of Jesus the miracle performer, his death and resurrection pre-dates the Bible and goes back even to ancient Egyptians and their attempts to understand the world through astrology. Is there any truth in this? Or is it just as nutty as the other stuff they bang on about?

That's a pretty common-sense argument to make imo, given that no religion/mass-movement is ever engineered from scratch in a lab by means of "revelation."
The similarities between Christianity and other Middle Eastern religions are indeed remarkable; the legend of Horus/Osiris is especially telling and has all the right elements to it (virgin birth/resurrection/etc.). Then there's the Mithraic mysteries and so on.

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Khawaga
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May 16 2009 15:21
weeler wrote:
The religion part is all a bit dan brown. Oh hey look at these loosely tied together "facts", religion is a lie, ok so was 9/11 - ps there is a jew world order behind all this.

That's probably the best and most succinct description of Zeitgeist I've read.

Boris Badenov
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May 16 2009 19:34

I'm proud to say I haven't actually watched it. Do they make any explicitly anti-semitic claims though? Because Dan Brown is a fucktard and a shit writer, but not a crypto-nazi last time I checked.

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Khawaga
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May 16 2009 19:50

Not in the first one, IMO indirectly in the second one (the Zeitgeist movies that is, not Dan Brown movies).

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May 17 2009 00:07

crikey, i didnt spot the anti-semitism. Maybe i've just forgotten, could you say which bits you mean.

Parker
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May 17 2009 08:12

there's no explicit anti-semitism, but the sources of these old canards are blatantly anti-semitic. "International bankers" is a well-known shorthand for "Jews", for instance, and in the bit in the first film about the creation of the Fed, it relies on "evidence" from notorious paranoid anti-semite congressman Louis McFadden.

Also, the arguments that fill the rest of the film: income tax is illegal, abandonment of the gold standard, the North American Union and the Amero, etc., etc. All these are things you'd read in far-right propaganda produced by individuals and groups who see themselves as "true patriots" against the "foreign" - i.e. Jewish - Federal Government.

capricorn
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May 17 2009 10:18
Khawaga wrote:
weeler wrote:
The religion part is all a bit dan brown. Oh hey look at these loosely tied together "facts", religion is a lie, ok so was 9/11 - ps there is a jew world order behind all this.

That's probably the best and most succinct description of Zeitgeist I've read.

I don't think the ps is valid. I've seen their films and read some of their stuff. They're certainly into conspiracy theories, currency crankism, New Age mumbo-jumbo as well as US 1930's Technocracy, but I didn't detect any overt anti-semitism. Don't think you can pin that one on them.

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May 17 2009 16:21

See Parker's comment above Capricorn. I agree that there is no overt anti-semitism in the movies and most likely the producers do not hate the Juice, but their argument about banking comes extremely close to the typical Juice World Order arguments from other conspiracy shite I've watched or read.