5 self-described anarchists are being charged with plotting to blow up a bridge near Cleveland, OH.
http://news.yahoo.com/five-arrested-cleveland-bomb-plot-official-140614344.html
May 1 2012 14:32
May 1 2012 17:49
Yep. Looks like the state is up to its dirty tricks again. Bad media coverage for anarchism, aka propaganda for capital. And no doubt another step towards justifying anti-terror and oppressive laws.
May 1 2012 18:11
I guess we should send the kids "You can't blow up a social relationship" to them in jail. How utterly stupid can you get?
May 1 2012 18:41
American law enforcement don't seem to worry about entrapment any more, as most of the recent terrorism cases seem to prove.The judiciary seem to be backing them on it as well.
May 1 2012 20:14
Guardian article on FBI's form for inciting, instigating, aiding and abetting then arresting people for 'terrorist plots'.
May 2 2012 17:24
Joseph Kay wrote:
Sounds like entrapment. I wonder who suggested bombing, the guy who could procure 'C4'? FBI has to justify it's anti-terrorist budget somehow. Remember kids, if someone offers to procure you explosives they're probably a cop.
Yeah, and the local Occupy cancelled its Mayday demonstration in response, pretty weak. This entrapment was all the more reason to have a demonstration. Looks like these mugs have already been thrown under the bus.
May 2 2012 19:02
I just saw this in school on CNN student news. Didn't mention they were anarchists, fortunately for me.
I bet this is a bunch of crap anyway.
May 2 2012 19:04
AJI wrote:
Yeah, and the local Occupy cancelled its Mayday demonstration in response, pretty weak. This entrapment was all the more reason to have a demonstration. Looks like these mugs have already been thrown under the bus.
No, dude. There was word going around that the CPD was going to use this as an excuse to beat the shit out of and arrest all of us, and with a few hundred people showing up to what they thought was going to be just a fun May Day rally, that would be bad. This wouldn't be a case where cops beating us would elicit public sympathy. It would have just gotten us beat up. OC is recovering and hopefully they will be able to do good things in the future.
May 2 2012 19:36
laborbund wrote:
No, dude. There was word going around that the CPD was going to use this as an excuse to beat the shit out of and arrest all of us, and with a few hundred people showing up to what they thought was going to be just a fun May Day rally, that would be bad. This wouldn't be a case where cops beating us would elicit public sympathy. It would have just gotten us beat up. OC is recovering and hopefully they will be able to do good things in the future.
Of course since you're on the ground you've got a better idea what's on going on there, but I was in Cleveo when there when the police had snipers downtown during a "No Business As Usual" emergency protest about a week after the war in Iraq started and there were still dozens of us in the streets.
Cops are always looking for an excuse to beat up and arrest Leftists. Yes, it's better to have tactical retreats as to not loose in the long run, but it really does strike me as truely an unfortunate response.
May 3 2012 14:20
From the WSWS
Quote:
A report by a local television station, WKYC, suggested that some of the men had mental problems. It cited a police report from February that Baxter had “jumped in front of a car in the middle of the night and told the driver to kill me.”Stafford’s mother described her son as someone who has “been troubled since he’s been young, been in and out of hospitals, prisons, jails. He’s just been a troubled soul since he’s been born.”
Quote:
In its description of the Confidential Human Source, or informant, who has yet to be identified, the FBI affidavit states that he, or she, “has a criminal record including one conviction for possession of cocaine in 1990, one conviction for robbery in 1991, and four convictions for passing bad checks between 1991 and 2011.” The informant was paid $5,750 for his services and $550 for expenses.
Quote:
Recounting the Cleveland informant’s original meetings with those now charged with conspiracy and facing 25 year jail sentences, the affidavit cites casual conversations in which the five toss out ideas such as setting off smoke bombs or stink bombs and knocking bank signs off of downtown Cleveland buildings.Their aim, according to the affidavit’s recounting of the informant’s report was “to send a message to corporations and the United States government.”
The informant was sent to meet with the five men targeted by the FBI wearing a concealed recording device. Even the portions of what the FBI presents as transcripts of recordings indicate that the informant worked deliberately to steer them toward the use of explosives.
For instance, Wright laughingly describes having read part of a book titled the “Anarchist Cookbook,” stating, “We can make smoke bombs, we can make plastic explosives, we can make, like, we can—it teaches you how to pick locks. It does everything.”
The informant responds, “How much money we need to make the plastic explosives.” When Wright indicates that he has no idea, the informant presses him, “You gotta get with me, uh, if we gonna be trying to do something in a month you need to get with me as soon as possible on how much money we gonna need.”
It is clear that from the outset the aim was to convince those charged to agree to buy “explosives” from undercover operatives to make the conspiracy case that had been invented by the FBI.
According to the affidavit, the informant suggested the bridge to be bombed, drove the defendants to it and convinced them that he had a “contact” who could sell them explosives.
At one point, the affidavit’s version of the recording transcripts shows the informant pressing Baxter that decisions must be made because they “are not that far out from the operation, time-wise,” and Baxter replying that he “was just throwing around ideas and does not know exactly what they should do.”
This type of exchange is repeated in the course of the affidavit, indicating that the informant was the driving force in the so-called conspiracy, pressing the hapless “anarchists” to carry out actions that they had neither the inclination nor the ability to do on their own. Indeed, it is not clear whether the five even had access to a car, as the informant is repeatedly reported as driving them to the meetings with the undercovers, to the site of the bridge and elsewhere.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/clev-m03.shtml
Looks like entrapment to me.
May 3 2012 15:20
Still fucking idiots, entrapment or no.
May 3 2012 15:24
It's fucked up, but as i understand it by current US law isn't entrapment so long as they can show the accused became at some point willing participants. Even if they were incited, funded, equipped, trained, and driven to the scene by the FBI. That massive 9/11 anti-terror budget is literally being used to fabricate and then 'bust' imaginary terrorist plots. They've done this loads to muslims, looks like they're branching out.
May 3 2012 18:33
AJI wrote:
but I was in Cleveo when there when the police had snipers downtown during a "No Business As Usual" emergency protest about a week after the war in Iraq started and there were still dozens of us in the streets.
If you're talking about the March 28th, 2003 march it was around 300 or so of us in the streets. Great march even though it ended with some arrests.
May 3 2012 19:57
Clevo Sam wrote:
If you're talking about the March 28th, 2003 march it was around 300 or so of us in the streets. Great march even though it ended with some arrests.
Upwards of 300 seems possible, it was a while ago.
May 4 2012 15:24
I'm mostly interested in how the anarchist movement in general should respond to this headline. This seems like an important moment to figure out how to express our selfs 'not' just to anarchist subculture but to working people in general, and to our families. We don't really know the facts of the case yet, but I informally 'feel' from fellow anarchists a first response of 'they didn't in fact hurt anyone' and 'there are entrapment issues". To the working people who were crossing the bridge at that moment, if these responses are reflected in print,I think it will really be a poor moment for the anarchist press.
I think we have to be very vocal that anarchism is about building connections with communities to work for a self managed communal society etc or how ever we express it, but be very quick to condemn the targeting of civilians or any human rights violations for 'any' ideology or any cause, wether civilian casualties in US occupations, from the right, the left or the center.
Further, because of anarchism's historic concern for freedom and civil liberties, we are concerned about all issues of legal entrapment from the State, again, in any circumstances, wether in the failed war on drugs, or in counter terrorism.
any feedback is helpful asap
May 4 2012 21:51
Sorry to break it to you but working people in general don't read the anarchist press.
May 4 2012 23:20
That and civilians weren't targeted. If they were, this would be a smear job, Anarchists would never target civilians.
So condemnation is not what I'd call a good move. Most people don't even know they are anarchists, the immediate assumption your average Joe is making are Islamic sympathizers.
Just ignoring it would be fine. At some point we have to be militant and unfortunately that won't win us friends in the US where the working class are borderline fascist. So I disagree with your calls for condemnation.
May 5 2012 00:01
Ambrose wrote:
That and civilians weren't targeted. If they were, this would be a smear job, Anarchists would never target civilians.So condemnation is not what I'd call a good move. Most people don't even know they are anarchists, the immediate assumption your average Joe is making are Islamic sympathizers.
Just ignoring it would be fine. At some point we have to be militant and unfortunately that won't win us friends in the US where the working class are borderline fascist. So I disagree with your calls for condemnation.
He or she wasn't saying (I don't think) that we should immediately condemn the suspects, but that we should condemn all terrorist/vanguardist methods.
May 5 2012 01:29
tastybrain wrote:
He or she wasn't saying (I don't think) that we should immediately condemn the suspects, but that we should condemn all terrorist/vanguardist methods.
I understand the need for building communities, certainly something I'd do if I were able.
While an individual bombing is disagreeable and it is easy to simply denounce them as evil men, we don't fully understand the circumstances. From what I've read of the news articles provided by my fellows, it seems they were attacking financial symbols.
I'm sure it would not have happened if it were not for the FBI's encouragement and support.
But asking that all Anarchists should abstain from militant tactics betrays, to me at least, a progression toward the US governments side of things.
Diversity of strategy is important. We need to be able to adapt to the situation. What we call terrorism now was very necessary after the Bolshevik takeover of Russia and the Spanish Civil War. From the accounts I've read, the problem wasn't the use of too much violence but the tendency of Anarchists to be far too compromising with their values and methods, particularly in Spain.
We're beginning to compromise our methods in order to placate the masses. I've even heard some Americans describe martial law as "the way it ought to be". That will take much more than a smile to see that illusion go away.
May 5 2012 01:30
yes, thats right, not condemning the suspects but terrorist methods. the facts of the case just arnet out yet. but the headlines are.
the person who commented that working people in general don't read the anarchist press, theres no way to argue with that, its true, but by assuming they don't and writing for our selfs, keeps us in this subculture mess we're in. I understand the concern about condeming other activists, but in talking about this issue with my family, with fellow workers and community members, being silent in my case is a bad option, since I'm vocally opposed to terrorist actions from the right and the Us Gov war occupation. If self identified anarchists istarted to promote the rights of Mcdonald's, I think we would make a statement. If self identified anarchists started promoting racist ideas, we should have some statement available making clear they do not represent the spectrum of our movement. Now we don't know the facts of the case, but if the five cleavland anarchists do say they believe in putting civilians at risk to make a statement, well, if we dotn stand against for human rights violations in our own camp, we are in pretty big trubble as a movement.
May 5 2012 01:33
oh, I should add, I'm not suggesting a statement from the whole anarchist movement at all, but in my own ciricesl and networks I'm working on this, so your feed back here dose help, thank you
May 5 2012 20:24
Ambrose wrote:
tastybrain wrote:
He or she wasn't saying (I don't think) that we should immediately condemn the suspects, but that we should condemn all terrorist/vanguardist methods.I understand the need for building communities, certainly something I'd do if I were able.
While an individual bombing is disagreeable and it is easy to simply denounce them as evil men, we don't fully understand the circumstances. From what I've read of the news articles provided by my fellows, it seems they were attacking financial symbols.
You heard wrong. They were allegedly plotting to blow up a bridge (public property), and it could have killed innocent people. Best case scenario the action they allegedly attempted would have killed no one but done fuck all to further the self-organization of the class and would have very probably induced a strong backlash against anarchists.
Quote:
I'm sure it would not have happened if it were not for the FBI's encouragement and support.
Be that as it may, if all it took was a little nudging from an undercover to get them to (allegedly) attempt to destroy a massive piece of public infrastructure they were never good comrades to begin with.
Quote:
But asking that all Anarchists should abstain from militant tactics betrays, to me at least, a progression toward the US governments side of things.
Err...no. "Militant tactics" are fine. Vanguardist terrorism isn't. The proletariat as a class has never rattled its cage with explosives. Mass tactics which can promote our ideas and facilitate self-activity (strikes, blockades, occupations, etc) should be our way forward, not ridiculous wannabe guerrilla stunts. Terrorist tactics, by their very nature, are the tools of small, exclusive groups and in my view are unlikely to grow the movement like mass tactics can (propaganda of the deed was a failure).
Quote:
Diversity of strategy is important. We need to be able to adapt to the situation. What we call terrorism now was very necessary after the Bolshevik takeover of Russia and the Spanish Civil War. From the accounts I've read, the problem wasn't the use of too much violence but the tendency of Anarchists to be far too compromising with their values and methods, particularly in Spain.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Clearly neither Franco's Spain not Lenin's/Stalin's Russia was anywhere close to being toppled by anarchists. I'm sure the use of terrorist tactics in these instances was far more logical and appropriate in the dictatorial contexts you mention than in 2012 Cleveland.
Quote:
We're beginning to compromise our methods in order to placate the masses. I've even heard some Americans describe martial law as "the way it ought to be". That will take much more than a smile to see that illusion go away.
What?? Terrorism will only reinforce a preference for martial law, not undermine it. Sorry the ignorant masses haven't caught up to your clearly superior position that bridges in Cleveland should be randomly blown up for teh anarchiez 
May 6 2012 19:18
tastybrain wrote:
You heard wrong. They were allegedly plotting to blow up a bridge (public property), and it could have killed innocent people. Best case scenario the action they allegedly attempted would have killed no one but done fuck all to further the self-organization of the class and would have very probably induced a strong backlash against anarchists.
Fair enough.
tastybrain wrote:
Be that as it may, if all it took was a little nudging from an undercover to get them to (allegedly) attempt to destroy a massive piece of public infrastructure they were never good comrades to begin with.
So they are deplorable people for being coerced into this action? I say give them the benefit of the doubt, not the FBI.
tastybrain wrote:
Err...no. "Militant tactics" are fine. Vanguardist terrorism isn't. The proletariat as a class has never rattled its cage with explosives. Mass tactics which can promote our ideas and facilitate self-activity (strikes, blockades, occupations, etc) should be our way forward, not ridiculous wannabe guerrilla stunts. Terrorist tactics, by their very nature, are the tools of small, exclusive groups and in my view are unlikely to grow the movement like mass tactics can (propaganda of the deed was a failure).
I agree.
tastybrain wrote:
I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Clearly neither Franco's Spain not Lenin's/Stalin's Russia was anywhere close to being toppled by anarchists. I'm sure the use of terrorist tactics in these instances was far more logical and appropriate in the dictatorial contexts you mention than in 2012 Cleveland.
In Spain, the POUM and the CNT were increasingly cozying up to the communists, distancing themselves from their original policies (collectivized industries, worker squads instead of police, etc). They refused to fight back when the PSUC decided to seize the Telephone Exchange in Catalonia. They conceded too much of themselves to placate others and they lost.
Occupy did cancel their rally in response to the whole mess.
tastybrain wrote:
What?? Terrorism will only reinforce a preference for martial law, not undermine it. Sorry the ignorant masses haven't caught up to your clearly superior position that bridges in Cleveland should be randomly blown up for teh anarchiez
Ambrose wrote:
While an individual bombing is disagreeable and it is easy to simply denounce them as evil men, we don't fully understand the circumstances.
I suppose I said right in there that bridges should be bombed, right?
May 7 2012 02:20
Instead of condemning these five alleged conspirators I would suggest the following:
We not engage the discourse offered to us. This is a time for us to have a conversation about the FBI and the State's involvement in instigating and then solving its own terrorist plots. No amount of hand wringing or casting of our own "terrorist" labels will help us in the eyes of the general pubic.
When asked what to say of those arrested I think we have already an adequate idea. When people are isolated and sad they often do stupid and desperate things. Some people get married, some begin drinking, some kill themselves and some get tricked by the FBI. We can have empathy for these people as human beings. Does this mean we support these actions? No, but we too know the misery of daily life and also have acted without thinking. Luckily it is most often with less terrible consequences or potential for harm of others.
Though are tactics may diverge, one must in the end always side with what is human against capitalism that makes us into monsters.
May 7 2012 05:35
Great post doam.
May 16 2012 19:28
I would have to agree with Doam on this one, lets engage with the role of feds and have a critical discussion on entrapment.
Last year, I happened to glance over at an issue of Mother Jones in a checkout line and just ended up reading this entire article, The Informantsand Terrorist for the FBI Exclusive.
The entrapment that happened in Cleveland over May Day reminded me of these articles. The first article provides a lot of insight into both the psychological profiles of who the FBI target for entrapment and information which exposes the feds in creating their own problems/crimes/plots to then stop and arrest people. I am sure we are all familiar with the history of the FBI just making stuff up as they move along ruining people's lives and weakening or breaking down organizations, so there is no need to go over the particulars.
Though I do no think it is necessary to solely focus on the individuals entrapped, I do think it is fair to discuss and even criticize the choices that people make that end in entrapment. Also, I would like bring up a point or even suggest that persons might fall prey to FBI entrapment due to ideological reasons, theory, and practice or lack thereof.
Though I am not familiar with the day to day struggles in Cleveland, I find it hard to believe that at this point in time blowing up a bridge would some how further to goals of working people on May Day or any other day in Cleveland for that matter. I would understand if that region of the US was engaged in military operations against a workers insurrection, and that specific bridge was being used to transport material support to the class enemy, then by all means. But somehow I doubt that is the case.
A plot to blow up a bridge sounds more like a protest spectacle similar, but more extravagant, to blocking intersections and smashing windows with no real clear goal or reasons as to why. The abstraction of struggle beyond the individual's and our classes' everyday lives has led people to make stupid decisions based on nonsense. We cannot allow people to believe the hype of a hundred year old bomb throwing anarchist caricature, that the power structure in fact created to lure people away from actual militant struggle.
Education, training, and making connections within our everyday lives in struggle should be the judge of what methods, tactics, and actions that need to be taken to further our interests and ideologies, not some abstract need to make a big spectacle.
I will not attempt to justify support or suggest that these people should be just given over to the feds, I will let radicals in Cleveland and their supporters answer that question. I do not know enough about the situation and so far the only story being offered up is the state's side.
Anyway, point being, I always wonder why people are so willing to attempt grand theatrics or tactical exercises without any clear reasons as to why or weigh the options and worth of such activities. Fighting in this class war is not an attempt at causing blips of chaos here and there. May Day is not about blowing shit up or fighting cops, but if blowing shit up and fighting cops happens along the way oh well.
- We shouldn't engage in being entrapped and then yell fowl, that is absurd.
- If we have May Day demonstrations and police attack defend yourselves.
- If riots breakout and people start looting, defend yourselves while looting.
- If and when the tanks role out, defend yourselves.
- When class war becomes militarized, then go get the C4.
The situation at hand should dictate your tactics not the FBI.
Whether you are part of "gangs", motorcycle clubs, crews, or radical organizations the FBI use a wide variety of ways to entrap you and your friends. Informants selling things to undercover agents in your presence, agents pushing people to do things they normally wouldn't do, agents setting up entire organizations or parts of organizations that commit illegal acts and then blame you for it are all ways in which the feds operate. Entrapment is but one successful tactic used by the feds in their war on workers and workers organizations, political or apolitical it doesn't matter for the feds.
Sep 6 2012 23:45
Akron: 3 men plead guilty in bridge plot case
Quote:
AKRON -- Three men charged in connection with a failed bridge bombing plot have pleaded guilty to charges against them.Connor Stevens, Douglas Wright and Brandon Baxter entered guilty pleas in Akron federal court this afternoon.
"The government made no concessions. The defendants plead straight up to the indictment," said Steven Dettelbach, the US attorney for the Northern District of Ohio.
The three men plead guilty to conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, attempted use of those weapons and malicious use of an explosive device to destroy property used in interstate commerce.
With short haircuts, and clean shaven, the men looked far different at Wednesday's hearing than they did in the mugshot photos from their arrests.
"The bottom line was he wanted to get the least amount of time," said Defense Attorney Terry Gilbert, of his client Connor Stevens.
"You just don't know what a jury is going to do," said John Pyle, who represented Brandon Baxter.
The men known as the Cleveland 5 were arrested with the help of an undercover FBI informant who sold them the fake explosives they used to attempt to blow up the Brecksville-Northfield High Level Bridge.
Defense attorneys say in a perfect world, they'd call this case entrapment by the FBI, but that's a defense that hasn't worked since 9/11.
Dec 3 2012 04:49
article on one of the guys. http://goo.gl/FR4BV nice to see press pretty much acknowledge entrapment
Dec 3 2012 15:10
doam wrote:
When people are isolated and sad they often do stupid and desperate things. Some people get married
pardon?
ps - fully agree with tastybrain's post #23
Dec 20 2012 08:00
tastybrain wrote:
Ambrose wrote:
tastybrain wrote:
He or she wasn't saying (I don't think) that we should immediately condemn the suspects, but that we should condemn all terrorist/vanguardist methods.I understand the need for building communities, certainly something I'd do if I were able.
While an individual bombing is disagreeable and it is easy to simply denounce them as evil men, we don't fully understand the circumstances. From what I've read of the news articles provided by my fellows, it seems they were attacking financial symbols.
You heard wrong. They were allegedly plotting to blow up a bridge (public property), and it could have killed innocent people. Best case scenario the action they allegedly attempted would have killed no one but done fuck all to further the self-organization of the class and would have very probably induced a strong backlash against anarchists.
Quote:
I'm sure it would not have happened if it were not for the FBI's encouragement and support.Be that as it may, if all it took was a little nudging from an undercover to get them to (allegedly) attempt to destroy a massive piece of public infrastructure they were never good comrades to begin with.
Quote:
But asking that all Anarchists should abstain from militant tactics betrays, to me at least, a progression toward the US governments side of things.Err...no. "Militant tactics" are fine. Vanguardist terrorism isn't. The proletariat as a class has never rattled its cage with explosives. Mass tactics which can promote our ideas and facilitate self-activity (strikes, blockades, occupations, etc) should be our way forward, not ridiculous wannabe guerrilla stunts. Terrorist tactics, by their very nature, are the tools of small, exclusive groups and in my view are unlikely to grow the movement like mass tactics can (propaganda of the deed was a failure).
Quote:
Diversity of strategy is important. We need to be able to adapt to the situation. What we call terrorism now was very necessary after the Bolshevik takeover of Russia and the Spanish Civil War. From the accounts I've read, the problem wasn't the use of too much violence but the tendency of Anarchists to be far too compromising with their values and methods, particularly in Spain.I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Clearly neither Franco's Spain not Lenin's/Stalin's Russia was anywhere close to being toppled by anarchists. I'm sure the use of terrorist tactics in these instances was far more logical and appropriate in the dictatorial contexts you mention than in 2012 Cleveland.
Quote:
We're beginning to compromise our methods in order to placate the masses. I've even heard some Americans describe martial law as "the way it ought to be". That will take much more than a smile to see that illusion go away.What?? Terrorism will only reinforce a preference for martial law, not undermine it. Sorry the ignorant masses haven't caught up to your clearly superior position that bridges in Cleveland should be randomly blown up for teh anarchiez
Baader Meinhof Bridge Complex. Full action supreme anarchy. No prisoners taken. Free meat helmets to all that apply. End transmission.
The only reason these guys are being called anarchists is because of the MEDIA's misconception (rather purposely misrepresented) that anarchism is blowing shit up. I haven't spoken with anyone who knows the guys but I'm willing to bet they're not actual anarchists, as in,
holding a proper critique of capitalism and the state.
Can comment on articles and discussions
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/01/justice/ohio-bridge-arrests/index.html
Sounds like entrapment. I wonder who suggested bombing, the guy who could procure 'C4'? FBI has to justify it's anti-terrorist budget somehow. Remember kids, if someone offers to procure you explosives they're probably a cop.