Demise of the De Leonist SLP?

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kenellis
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Jul 7 2009 16:15

Thanks for the heads up on the Ballot Access News response by Bills. I hadn't visited their site for months. True, the SLP is small game, but the game seems to be the same in a lot of places, so an analysis of the SLP can be instructive in the analyses of other parties as well.

Petey, if you are interested in satisfying your curiosity about the integrity of Bills and the SLP, then you might want to directly ask him the following: Did past Nat'l Sec'y Arnold Petersen redefine Marx's proletarian dictatorship as a 'dictatorship over the peasantry' in his 1931 pamphlet "Proletarian Democracy vs. Dictatorships and Despotism"? Did AP then use his redefinition to suggest that 'the relative lack of a peasantry in the USA thereby renders the proletarian dictatorship unnecessary'?

It would do no good for me to take this query to Bills, because he could always dismiss me with a snort of derision, as he has been trained to do since I quit the party in 1977. However, if a third party such as yourself were to ask, YOU could not be so easily dismissed without raising a few eyebrows in the community. The working class deserves to know the truth on this subject, and I am curious to see if Bills is capable of delivering it. Would you do yourself and the working class such a favor? The workers deserve to know if the SLP offers anything of value.

syndicalist
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Jul 8 2009 04:32

Robert Bills Says:
June 11th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Just two things with regard to Mr. Ellis, a former SLP member who has been carrying this torch around now for more than 30 years:

1st — Mr. Ellis to the contrary notwithstanding, nothing yet has “sealed the SLP’s doom.” We’re still here.

2nd — Whatever “yahoo group deleonism-list” may be, and whoever may be responsible for it, it has nothing to do with the SLP and the SLP cannot be held responsible for whatever is posted there. The SLP has a website (www.slp.org), and when it comes to the World Wide Web and the Internet, that is all the SLP has. Anyone who wants to take Mr. Ellis’s advice to “See for yourself” will have to go there.

kenellis
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Jul 8 2009 13:19

syndicalist wanted to know exactly what I was saying a few days ago. I began by recalling the several times I've been censored off forums, then moved to an observation of revolutionary ideology, seemingly frozen in 19th century terms. Back in Marx's day, revolution was all about replacing absolute monarchies with democracies, as well as using the few existing democracies back then to advance working class issues, such as the 8 hour day. With Europe now largely democratized, the revolution has lost its mass appeal, though various handfuls still campaign for it. Should the masses living in democracies overthrow them?

kenellis
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Aug 23 2009 10:28

A few more reasons why some left-wingers can possess worse morals than right-wingers:

Socialist Labor Party theorists deliberately lied about politics and history in an effort to make Marx, Engels, and Lenin appear to validate the SLP's Socialist Industrial Union program. Because SLP theorists knew they were lying, they also had to sense that their bogus theories would never pass peer review, their SIU program would never appeal to the masses, and instead would find favor only among a relative handful of deluded individuals who would dutifully assert that their bogus theories represented the pinnacle of 'socialist science', similar to the way in which some cults operate. To prevent the SIU program from being openly challenged within the party, members were not allowed to freely discuss troublesome ideas outside of their own local organizations, and were required to address all of their unresolved concerns to their National Office, thereby limiting communication possibilities and offering dissidents less freedom of speech within the SLP than allowed by the very government the party was pledged to dismantle, which has to be as unattractive and undemocratic a measure as was ever imposed on a party membership. Only the very top members had access to the information required to fully comprehend the situation within the party as a whole, leaving the members in the field with little to do but recruit fresh meat to be exploited.

Given the willingness of so many to follow just about whatever crackpot ideas get inflicted on them, only a small cadre of skilled liars loyal to whatever evil forces that propagated the lies in the first place would be required to maintain continuity of support and perpetuate the SIU far into the future. The liars, all the while projecting as innocent a state of denial as any present-day GOP spokesperson, nitpick dissenters rather than engage in the kind of careful debate that would end up exposing the fraudulent basis of the SIU. Gullible followers who long for non-political solutions to modern problems could care less that the SIU was designed - not to succeed, but rather to fail - and, by so failing, fulfill the covert bourgeois agenda of fostering divisions and preventing the degree of unity needed for successful grass roots social change.

The present-day total irrelevance of the SLP and its SIU should be no big secret to those who would rather think their way out of modern problems than simply recite formulas for social change that were fraudulently cooked up over a century ago, and grow increasingly irrelevant with the passage of time. Robots will replace all human labor before a rapidly dwindling work force decides to organize into Socialist Industrial Unions. However, it may take a long time before well-motivated activists come to understand that the secret to abolishing class distinctions is stringent regulation of business. That tactic in the class war requires the use of the state by the workers, which totally contradicts the SLP's absurd anarchist program.

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arminius
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Aug 28 2009 12:09

There are still groups for the Socialist Labor Party on both Myspace and Facebook, for whatever that means and for anyone interested.

Spikymike
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Nov 1 2009 17:13

My political views today (and for many decades now) might be described as a kind of modern critical 'council communism' and far removed from the 'impossibilism' of the SPGB/WSM from which I emmerged in my youth.

At that time however I must admit to being influenced in some degree by the stirling work put in by comrades Jim and Nasrim Plant for the SLP in their almost single handed production and distribution of 'The Socialist' . For all its (many) faults the basic ideas of the SLP always seemed to have the edge over its rival in the SPGB, though both maintained a rather formalistic approach towards the class struggle.

The Plants eventually, and before many others, ended up being very justifiably critical of the organisation they had given so much to and more or less ended the SLP's viseable presence in Britain.

I still have copies from a later period of the old 'Discussion Bulletin' referred to on this thread including within its covers contributions from myself and my namessake in the IWW.

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arminius
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Nov 5 2009 23:24

Jim is still active spreading the message of the necessity for a society in which the workers will administer the necessaries of society through their industrial unions after their party of whatever name has convened and adjourned in government, immediately abolishing the state with itself. I believe this is still where he can be reached:

Redline Publications
P.O.Box 6700, Sawbridgeworth, CM21 0WA UK

As for the Discussion Bulletin, its mission was picked up by the creation of the World in Common project in November of 2002., though WiC does seem to have a problem of various sectarians deliberately trying to distort what it's about, something I don't remember the DB having to put up with to a huge degree, though some, iirc..

Their website and discussion forum:
http://www.worldincommon.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worldincommon/

Jason Cortez
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Nov 6 2009 00:03

It has not been updated for over a year is it still a functioning site?

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arminius
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Nov 6 2009 14:10

I forgot to mention that the World in Common project also has a collective blog:

http://spacesofhope.blogspot.com/

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arminius
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Jan 17 2010 23:10
syndicalist wrote:
I see some ex-SLPers have revived the name of the "Workers International Industrial Union"
http://www.wiiu.org/

Just found this:

WIIU Convention to Meet January 2010
Written by Secretary-Treasurer
Sunday, 13 December 2009 22:56

By 661063A

AFTER A YEAR of organizing and getting the Union off the ground, the interim Central Executive Committee of the WIIU has called a its First Constitutional Convention.

Over the weekend of January 22-24, 2010, members of the WIIU will discuss the work of the Union since its revival in December 2008, recommendations for changes to the interim Constitution, resolutions on specific issues and actions, and election of a new C.E.C. and officers for the union, including the Secretary-Treasurer, Organizer and Editor of IUNews.

All members of the WIIU in good standing as of January 1, 2010, are eligible to participate in the Convention, including at-large members.

The most important work of the upcoming Convention will be confirming the interim Constitution and By-Laws of the WIIU. Our current Constitution is based on the original, with some changes reflecting the start-up status of the Union, as well as developments in both the political and economic reality of capitalism today.

Members will have the opportunity to submit amendments to strengthen the Constitution and By-Laws as they see fit and necessary.

There are also a number of resolutions that have been submitted by members that will be discussed, on questions including affiliation of independent local unions that want to be a part of the WIIU, endorsement of workers’ candidates in elections and relations with other unions.

Members will have the opportunity between now and the upcoming Convention to nominate candidates for officers of the WIIU and members of the Central Executive Committee. Any member of the WIIU in good standing is eligible during this First Constitutional Convention to nominate themselves or anyone else (as long as they accept the nomination and run for office.

Because of the current economy, the Convention will be held online. A virtual Convention Hall is being set up through the WIIU’s website, and all members will be sent information on how to access the information and discussions. Special arrangements are being made to make sure that members without Internet access are also able to fully participate in the discussions and work.

For more information, check out the WIIU’s Convention page on our website at www.wiiu.org/2010convention. To submit resolutions, motions or nominations, you can send them to our postal address or e-mail us at wiiu@wiiu.org

http://www.wiiu.org/index.php/home/1-latest-news/76-wiiu-convention-to-meet-january-2010.html

Jason Cortez
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Jan 18 2010 09:22
WIIU wrote:
Because of the current economy, the Convention will be held online. A virtual Convention Hall is being set up through the WIIU’s website, and all members will be sent information on how to access the information and discussions. Special arrangements are being made to make sure that members without Internet access are also able to fully participate in the discussions and work.

What has the state of the economy to do with having it online?? Do they mean, the state of their finances? Whilst not against the use of the internet for this sort of thing in principal, I do think that face to face discussion is important and the informal discussions that take place at conferences can often be very important. Is this just the result of the WIIU being a few isolated individuals scattered over the US or is this an attempt to be innovative and reduce costs and to be more inclusive?

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Entdinglichung
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Jan 18 2010 12:10

it seems, that the SLP is still pretty active in digitizing its gems for MIA and Internet Archive, probably a state of hibernation?! ... http://marxists.org/archive/deleon/pdf/index.htm & http://www-tracey.archive.org/search.php?query=mediatype%3Atexts%20AND%20subject%3A%22Socialist%20Labor%20party%22&sort=-publicdate

syndicalist
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Jan 18 2010 14:03
Jason Cortez wrote:
Is this just the result of the WIIU being a few isolated individuals scattered over the US or is this an attempt to be innovative and reduce costs and to be more inclusive?

Prolly. Tough getting folks together from thousands of miles apart, particularly scattered individuals. WSA has faced this problem as well.

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arminius
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May 17 2010 14:22

Pertinent exchange here:

http://bataillesocialiste.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/the-slp-of-america-a-premature-obituary/