"Platformism" vs. "Insurrectionalism" How Deep the Dichotomy?

Submitted by hpwombat on 3 September, 2007 - 01:40.

"Platformism" vs. "Insurrectionalism" How Deep the Dichotomy?

Similar

Both value the specific group (anarchist federation vs. affinity cluster)

Both value the general group (mass vs. base organization)

Both conflict with present union leadership

Both see labor as one point of struggle

Both see neighborhood communities as a point of struggle

Both advocate direct action as a method of change

Both are anti-state and anti-capitalist

Difference

How the specific group is organized (federation vs. network)

How the general group is organized (formal vs. informal)

The role of direct action in the labor movement and abroad

The political program

Jargon

What is missing?

3 September, 2007 - 02:10

Difference
Platformism: Boring as hell
Insurrectionism: Batshit crazy

3 September, 2007 - 13:30

If it isn't boring it's petty bourgeois adventurism.

3 September, 2007 - 13:37

if you trwal the icc website [do, it's fun :)] they have a hardline against communist parties that are too adventurist oppurtunist etc., these are categories that the left communists have learned through tough times are reactionary and they have a hard line against them. maybe ironic that anarchists have very similar categories insurrecfionary reformist etc., just that the anarchist versions are so much more intense laugh out loud

3 September, 2007 - 14:12

I wrote a rather long 'platformist' analysis of insurrectionalism last year which you can read at http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=3430

There is a reasonably serious debate in the comments following it with one or more anonymous insurrectionalists.

A Chilean comrade than wrote a reply to the article basically adding to areas which I had missed or where he thought I was a bit soft and we published both pieces together as a PDF at http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=5285

Both are also available in Spanish.

In writing the piece what struck me was how similar insurrectionalism is in many of its basic political assumptions/critique to the standard politics of much of the LibCom crew. Obviously there would be a rather substantial disagreement about methods.

3 September, 2007 - 14:14

You're actually really good at this game when you try. sad

3 September, 2007 - 14:23
JoeBlack2 wrote:
In writing the piece what struck me was how similar insurrectionalism is in many of its basic political assumptions/critique to the standard politics of much of the LibCom crew.

care to elaborate? presumably you're equating the 'post-left' with the 'ultra-left'? most insurrectionists i've discussed with reject class struggle, which is a pretty big basic political difference...

3 September, 2007 - 14:25

JK - he obviously just said it because he knows it'll annoy us. As have a good majority of his recent posts. He's actually very good at it.

3 September, 2007 - 14:31
Joseph K. wrote:
care to elaborate? presumably you're equating the 'post-left' with the 'ultra-left'? most insurrectionists i've discussed with reject class struggle, which is a pretty big basic political difference...

I think the batko group in Sweden describe themselves as insurrectionists, and are also close to Marcel of burgers and value and "communisation" etc. don't know of any others, and I'm not sure there's much connection to "insurrectionalism" either. At least one of the batko types posts on here very occasionally, maybe they can answer.

3 September, 2007 - 14:35
Jack wrote:
JK - he obviously just said it because he knows it'll annoy us. As have a good majority of his recent posts. He's actually very good at it.

grin

JoeBlack2 wrote:
In writing the piece what struck me was how similar insurrectionalism is in many of its basic political assumptions/critique to the standard politics of much of the LibCom crew.

Ha yeah your UK section Dundee United told me I was an insurrectionist because I didn't support nationalising things, and would only support demands of revolution now. When I pointed him to the threads where I'd talked about my involvement in Unison's local govt 5% claim. He was unable to answer.

3 September, 2007 - 14:37
Jack wrote:
JK - he obviously just said it because he knows it'll annoy us. As have a good majority of his recent posts. He's actually very good at it.

of course, but we're discussing this on a public forum so i'm wondering if he's got anything to back it up, for the benefit of the tape like

3 September, 2007 - 15:23

I'd say he was thinking about the standard understanding of the relationship between the militant, the class and revolution. There are some similarities. Although, its probably worth reading his piece on insurrectionism which is really good I think. One of my favourite pieces by him.

3 September, 2007 - 15:27

I've read it, it's quite good and I mostly agreed with it. Does the other article add much?

3 September, 2007 - 15:30

To be honest I don't think the other article is great. Its written from a very different perspective though so it's interesting. Basically the author grew up involved in and around groups involved in armed struggle against pinochet but doesn't fetishize violence so it's more of a a 'fucking grow up' article.

3 September, 2007 - 15:36

Similar
Platformism: Who?
Insurrectionalism: What?!

3 September, 2007 - 16:11

I strongly agree with the critique of tactical dogmatism in Joe and Jose's articles.

it seems to me that tactics and organization are questions to be addressed in context, in which new situations should allow us to change our organizational methods. I think certain events and goals call for different organizations, its very possible that networks and collectives can co-exist side by side as they already do; and both can lend value to the struggle.

affinity groups make more sense during a riot or at a summit as well while doing sabotage; however, for a sustained organizational effort a collective and federation makes more sense where I am at now.

I think people just need to be more clear headed in their evaluation of their own tactics and see the short comings, and learn lessons from all currents of anarchism. I think people need to stop searching for some big TRUTH and realize everyday, and every situation calls for a minor truth of what will work at the time and for a certain duration. It might not be the same afterwards, but you have to keep constantly self-evaluating.

3 September, 2007 - 17:52

jeepers i hate is when folks say that anti-unionization of workers is like all, well a bunch of kids up for a ruck. well it's true to an extent if you don't see the importance of politics or revolution. laugh out loud

it is clear there is now more than ever a split between the left and the leftist laugh out loud i mean we don't blame the leftist for thug why blame the left for insurrectionists.

eta2: i dunno perhaps i said that wrong.. if Jack tells me not to be against unionization i won't be smile

4 September, 2007 - 07:08

Interesting discussion you had Joe, thanks for the link. Apparantly there is plenty of ground for the connection of struggle if insurrectionary anarchists share the same areas of struggle as organized anarchist communists.

4 September, 2007 - 15:14

I think, at least in theory, there are plenty of areas that anarchist-communists of both the platformist and insurrectionist tendencies could find commonality. Even historically we share alot of the same roots: Bakunin, Malatesta, Berkman, Lucy Parsons, IWPA, etc.

Unfortunately, at least in my experience among North American anarchists, most "insurrectionists" just seem like a bunch of internet geeks who talk tough and don't really have any involvement in real world struggles. The few European "insurrectionists" I've met (Greek, Spanish, etc) just seem like nihilistic a-holes. Pretty much a more politically motivated/tactically organized version of a drunk chaos punk. Awesome.

Not sure about anyone else, but I don't really have any interest in being directly associated with either version.

4 September, 2007 - 15:29
John. wrote:
yeah your UK section Dundee United

Hi John, please don't be intentionally dishonest, WSM does not have a UK section. Thanks.

4 September, 2007 - 15:33
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
yeah your UK section Dundee United

Hi John, please don't be intentionally dishonest, WSM does not have a UK section. Thanks.

I meant JoeBlack's UK section. I would've though Joe has left the WSM now he's in canadia, no?

4 September, 2007 - 15:42
John. wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
yeah your UK section Dundee United

Hi John, please don't be intentionally dishonest, WSM does not have a UK section. Thanks.

I meant JoeBlack's UK section. I would've though Joe has left the WSM now he's in canadia, no?

I understand that he is an international member (supporter?) of the WSM, or something along those lines.

4 September, 2007 - 15:43

I want to be one of those for Organise!. cool

4 September, 2007 - 15:46
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
yeah your UK section Dundee United

Hi John, please don't be intentionally dishonest, WSM does not have a UK section. Thanks.

I meant JoeBlack's UK section. I would've though Joe has left the WSM now he's in canadia, no?

I understand that he is an international member (supporter?) of the WSM, or something along those lines.

leader in exile?

4 September, 2007 - 15:47
Jack wrote:
I want to be one of those for Organise!. cool

Wait until they join the IWA. grin (just ask revol)

4 September, 2007 - 15:49
John. wrote:
leader in exile?

That's immature and pretty insulting to the rest of the organisation.

4 September, 2007 - 16:01

sad

Do i take it then that you're the leader now? grin

4 September, 2007 - 16:13
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
leader in exile?

That's immature and pretty insulting to the rest of the organisation.

Don't take it personally. Someone needs to out-do Chuck0 in undiscplined sectarian bullshit among anarcho-internet editors. That guy's held the title for far too long. wink

4 September, 2007 - 16:40

Most sensible people in the org aren't on libcom. You only know the runt.

4 September, 2007 - 16:50
guydebordisdead wrote:
Wait until they join the IWA. grin

Hopefully that will happen before this poll closes down, so that we are sure to win it wink

5 September, 2007 - 08:30
Smash Rich Bastards wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
leader in exile?

That's immature and pretty insulting to the rest of the organisation.

Don't take it personally. Someone needs to out-do Chuck0 in undiscplined sectarian bullshit among anarcho-internet editors. That guy's held the title for far too long. ;)

Ooh yeah I mean that was coming pretty close. Maybe I'll go back and edit it so it's not obviously taking the piss, then I'll delete all of you guys' posts criticising it? And then I'll put a giant crimethinc logo on the front page cool