SDS

Submitted by Stripey on 13 September, 2007 - 23:31.

What is up with SDS?

First they were a piece of history. Then suddenly they are contemporary.

A guy I met at IWW General Assembly told me that SDS is dominated by anarchos and the debate within it was between pro-organisation and anti-organisation anarchists. Is SDS a giant anarchist university students' network? What is the membership?

Do they do real actions or just demos?

What is the plan? Strategy? Will it ever come to anything?

Is there SDS in Canada?

Is anybody here SDS?

14 September, 2007 - 00:27

Heres a report from the congress that was forwarded to me.

An Anonymous Libertarian Analysis Of The Detroit Convention
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Rather than personal reminiscences or a generic summary, this article endeavors to be the first analysis of the SDS Detroit Convention from the perspective of the libertarian left.

The Convention was, first and foremost, run according to the logic predominating among sections of the present-day “Left”. This meant that liberal identity politics made a strong appearance, to the detriment of focusing on potential actions and even hurrying the proceedings to determine the national structure (ostensibly the purpose of this Convention). Liberalism showed its pervasive influence through the various statements approved by the Convention, generally under rushed circumstances, which featured such unimpressive ideas as the “equality of oppressions”. This totality of oppressions implies the equality of all forms of oppression, and therefore, mystifies the true class composition of capitalist society. Only the working class, through its own efforts, can bring about the social revolution. This “equality of oppressions” schema is nothing more than a theoretical incitement to scabbing. For example, if a strike is in progress, and the boss wants to break it, conceivably the boss would simply bring in members of one identity group and encourage workers to leave their pickets. Presumably, SDS would be supporting the bosses’ effort, since, after all, oppressions are equal, so scabbing is now acceptable so long as it is tied to throwing crumbs to one racial or otherwise oppressed group. Anyone seeing the history of U.S. labor, and how bosses have always advanced the interest of one artificial “identity group” over the interests of the class during strike time (White scabs, Black scabs, Irish scabs, Chinese scabs, etc.) can not help but be upset by this superficially appealing but fundamentally reactionary notion. Anyone not able to divine the basic class nature of our society is simply blinded by the obscurantism of bourgeois ideology, which has always wanted to downplay the question of class. Another vision proposal, in the same liberal vein, put forward Lenin’s “anti-imperialist” demand for “national self-determination”, as if after all these years these struggles have done anything but get workers killed to establish a local capitalism, generally under the guise of Leninist “socialism”, over a foreign one. As Rosa Luxemburg noted, the very idea of “self-determination” under capitalism is nothing but an illusory humbug.

Seeing as it was the main purpose of the Convention, the structure proposal did indeed take up most of the time – in fact, both the aforementioned vision proposals were passed in hurried settings, with only one person allowed to speak for and another against, to ensure that the structure proposal would have enough time. Needless to say, even if the relevant issues had been raised (which they were not), discussing these issues for two minutes is a caricature of the real debate needed to destroy these mindless shibboleths of the liberal left. In any event, the structure was hammered out Monday morning, which established the unaccountable and unelected National Caucuses (whose members essentially have two votes on issues because they have both a heavy influence over the distribution of funds as well as veto power over decisions made by SDS) and also created various aspiring bureaucracies for the fledgling SDS. To make things interesting, a veritable “Enabling Act” is now in place which allows the National Body to make “emergency” decisions which can be challenged by the chapters after it has already happened. Instead of simply being a coordinating committee, this national structure is already setting down the foundations of a centralized organization while simultaneously creating the conditions that will lead to a future power struggle between the various factional elements within SDS. Add to this the various loopholes which one can no doubt find in the multiple pages of the convoluted structure proposal, and one can see that the National Structure which was passed was a mistake.

Later in the day, and keeping with the hurried tone of everything, action proposals were rushed through with the ubiquitous and detrimental “one for, one against” speaking policy. The most upsetting part of this process was that SDSers passed two ambiguous resolutions in support of business union campaigns which rather obviously came from the Maoist sect FRSO. In the brief period allotted for opposition, no one mentioned the intellectually bankrupt group behind these resolutions or the historical dead-end of traditional unions. But with that, the decision making ended.

In terms of analysis, the Convention revealed two ideological currents within SDS: the Leninists and the alleged “anti-authoritarians”. Of these two, the Leninists, an informal coalition of Maoists, Stalinists, etc., were clearly in the minority and recognizing this fact, they were for the most part relatively quiet. At times, however, they did make their presence felt, mostly through their costumes and their cries for centralization. The anti-authoritarian tendency, by far the majority, was in reality nothing more than a very loose collection of individuals whose only point of similarity was the fact that they were all self-declared “anti-authoritarians”. In fact, several sub-groups could be easily discerned, most notably the anti-organizationalism of UCF and the Pacific Northwest, a minor trend within the larger anti-authoritarian current that surfaced on matters of structure and process. Yet for the anti-authoritarian majority, SDS currently has its social-democratic aspirations voiced by several outspoken and well-known activists who have achieved popularity either as a result of their early efforts in constructing SDS or because of their pervasive presence in working groups and informal decision-making bodies. For now, most of the individuals comprising this leadership clique fall into the camp of the anti-authoritarians although it is very clear that, as we’ve mentioned, the ideological orientation of this group is in fact solidly liberal. Interestingly enough, the informal leadership clique seems to be approved and supported by both ideological currents. This kind of support from the Leninists is rather unsurprising, but this same attitude from the self-styled anti-authoritarians is rather disturbing. Even more disturbing is the relationship between the so-called anti-authoritarians and the Leninists. The Leninists, who ruined every revolution in the 20th century (Russia, Spain, Hungary, France, Portugal etc.) and will undoubtedly try to do so in the 21st, are simply tolerated by the anti-authoritarians who, under the veil of a mindless “popular front” mentality, deceive themselves into thinking that the authoritarians can not be criticized and may even be considered allies in some common struggle. Unsurprisingly, these authoritarians are encouraging these notions with the ferocious cry of “red baiting” to avoid debate, along with childish and duplicitous appeals to “unity” when, as they must know, there can be no lasting unity between the libertarian social revolution and the decrepit state capitalist schemes they support.

Despite all the obfuscating talk about “unity”, “anti-authoritarianism”, “struggle”, “anarchism”, and the like, when the time came to make a decision on the national structure of SDS (the central task of the Convention), the true nature of these tendencies was revealed with perfect lucidity. The Leninists were the strongest supporters of a centralized structure most favorable to bureaucratization and the anti-authoritarian current, as expected, splintered on impact, with members supporting all the major proposals. When the time came to decide on the final structure proposal, the authors hurriedly edited their incomplete document while the facilitators abruptly truncated discussion for the sake of efficiency. The informal leadership supported the document, primarily because a portion of its members were responsible for its creation; the Leninists, having no other choice, also supported it, but only after making certain that the unaccountable and un-elected national caucuses could control funds. The majority of the anti-authoritarians also supported the document (falling in line behind their “anarcho”-leadership), although there were a few opponents. This final outcome clarified the farcical nature of the final session of the Convention by revealing the players for who they really were and by illuminating their real intentions: the informal leadership attempted to bolster its fledgling position, the Leninists, weak at the moment, sat and hoped that at least some kind of framework conducive to future bureaucratization and centralization would be passed, and the anti-authoritarian rank-and-file, totally devoid of any radical analysis, passively acquiesced. As anti-authoritarians, they failed to criticize the undemocratic nature of the rushed sessions; they failed to ensure the creation of a decentralized, non-bureaucratic and accountable structure; and they were so pitiful that they failed to oppose the passing of Maoist resolutions at a Convention where anti-authoritarians had an overwhelmingly large presence. When the moment came to see who stood where, it became apparent that most of the anarchists or anti-authoritarians were nothing but pacifists, liberals, primitivists, and anti-organization drop-outs – “anarchists” not in any historical sense of the term, but only individuals who simply latched on to the title to justify their meddled and pseudo-revolutionary ideas.

In sum, the results of the Convention are about what one would expect from a gathering of a privileged portion of the proletariat in the least class-conscious nation on the planet. The disowning of a revolutionary class analysis by the vast majority, the mechanical acquiescence to an obviously flawed structure simply in the interests of getting something done and leaving with a sense of accomplishment, the hopeless self-flagellation over white guilt, the creation of SDS bureaucracies to train the future cadres of recuperation (the future Gitlins, Haydens, etc.), and the pernicious influence of the Leninist left are all indicative of this. This is unsurprising, because from history we might expect such dismal results: the first SDS simply served as a tool for one alienated section of the working class, students, to advance its demands for better integration into capitalism, with a radical minority not content with the student milieu quickly enlisted in various Leninist sects. But in our era of capitalist downsizing, will students be allowed to have a massive organization to lobby the power structure for their parochial interests? Or, perchance, will students be forced, by the crisis of capitalist accumulation, to leave the reified conceptions of “university” behind and begin to regard themselves as who they really are, as a group of young workers that the capitalists have attempted to buy off? Only time will tell, but no doubt only a libertarian organization can help students in their struggle to conceptualize themselves as workers and to act accordingly.

14 September, 2007 - 00:32

I think SDS just re formed in the last 2 years, and as far as I know they dont exist in Canada.

There is a short article on wikipedia that will give you a bit of info.

14 September, 2007 - 05:56
Quote:
A guy I met at IWW General Assembly told me that SDS is dominated by anarchos and the debate within it was between pro-organisation and anti-organisation anarchists. Is SDS a giant anarchist university students' network? What is the membership?

Yes but it is not that clear cut. Many of the pro organizational sdsers are just as bad as the anti. They fetishize white guilt politics like introducing themselves with their preffered gender pronouns, using "accountability' as a stick to beat on dissenters etc. Sadly there's not as many people interested in forming a student syndicalist project as there once was. We've been inundated with activists and non students who claim to be "students of life' or some such bullshit. The biggest problem for SDS will be choosing a course of either politics of the guilty white activist minority or the politics of mass, anger, and organization.

Quote:
Do they do real actions or just demos?

Yes and no. We get most publicity for the demos on the big peace crawls . However we have a pretty solid history of direct action. SDS was big into the olympia port blockades, at OU they ran successful campaigns against a corrupt administration by flooding the president's office. There's a lot of small actions like that that dot our short history.

Quote:
What is the plan? Strategy? Will it ever come to anything?

There is no unified plan or strategy. We'll see if SDS comes to anything. Initially it seemed that we were headed in a solid direction of mass student organizing, but that's stalled lately with the white guilt politics.

Quote:
Is there SDS in Canada?

Dunno

Quote:
Is anybody here SDS?

I was and am still fairly involved with sds. Though not so much as before with the influence of the subculturals and guilt trippers on the rise. I can't much stand meetings where open disagreement is seen as "patriarchical.'

Feel free to pm me any further questions.

14 September, 2007 - 06:44

I thought this was pretty cool: http://studentsforademocraticsociety.org/?p=62

Though I think it's kinda odd that the new sds activists have so little idea about the history of the first one... since it crashed and burned so heavily, you'd have thought that they'd want to know why. Kirkpatrick Sale's book SDS is the way forward.

14 September, 2007 - 13:33

wall

14 September, 2007 - 14:47

Gwen there are articles on SDS in the latest Z magazine as well as in the latest Left Turn you might want to check out. I know on Rhode Island the SDS has been heavily supportive of IWW initiatives; one of the major problems I have heard is that the older old SDSers from the 60's are a bunch of bickering bafoons who have on a whole been a problem; there are a few people here or there who have been helpful. However, the basis is that the battles of the Sixties are still being fought... ideologically. In the fundraising foundation run by the old timers you had factional fighting based around a power struggle.

It was all very childish; I can't tell you how the conferences went or anything because just getting in contact through email and lists serves turned me off this group.

14 September, 2007 - 22:29
http://studentsforademocraticsociety.org/?p=62 wrote:
After which I convinced folks that chanting can be fun and it doesn’t make you a hippy.

15 September, 2007 - 05:52

A hippy would say something like that...

just kidding, Im from the west coast, didnt know I was a hippy till I moved to crusty ol Montreal...

15 September, 2007 - 05:55

whoever thought it was a good idea to reform SDS needs a fucking bullet in the head.

15 September, 2007 - 06:07
Catch 22 wrote:
They fetishize white guilt politics like introducing themselves with their preffered gender pronouns,

What does gender and pronouns have to do with white guilt?

15 September, 2007 - 06:12
j.rogue wrote:
Catch 22 wrote:
They fetishize white guilt politics like introducing themselves with their preffered gender pronouns,

What does gender and pronouns have to do with white guilt?

fuck only knows. All i know is that most yank activists i meet are a PC pricks dripping in white guilt or using their 'male feminism' to sleaze onto girls.

i know it's an awful thing to say but considering the US 's activist culture and the fact it's population is dominated by religious loons, maybe Russia should have just nuked it and did us all a favour. There really is no hope in the states....

15 September, 2007 - 06:22

still some cunt would survive long enough to racialise nuclear bombs.

I mean just look at that cloud it's clearly a projection of pin prick white heteronormative power.

15 September, 2007 - 07:02

no one taking the bait?

pricks! sad

15 September, 2007 - 17:55

phallocentric caucasian nukes? bastards!

15 September, 2007 - 19:24
Quote:
...most yank activists i meet are a PC pricks dripping in white guilt or using their 'male feminism' to sleaze onto girls.

i know it's an awful thing to say...

yeah, well, it's true

15 September, 2007 - 19:39
newyawka wrote:
Quote:
...most yank activists i meet are a PC pricks dripping in white guilt or using their 'male feminism' to sleaze onto girls.

i know it's an awful thing to say...

yeah, well, it's true

"hey you know what i hate, capitalism and sexism, let's go up to my room and hate them together"

16 September, 2007 - 01:35
nothingnegated wrote:
newyawka wrote:
Quote:
...most yank activists i meet are a PC pricks dripping in white guilt or using their 'male feminism' to sleaze onto girls.

i know it's an awful thing to say...

yeah, well, it's true

"hey you know what i hate, capitalism and sexism, let's go up to my room and hate them together"

Are you folks sure that's what's going on?

What do you all mean by "white guilt"?

How do you tell the difference between white guilt and anti-racism?

And 'male feminism' (with quotes around it I suppose yo9u think it's a joke or something) and genuine feminism?

Do you think everyone perporting to be either of these in insincere?

Sounds to me like youse is jealous cause these guys appear to be getting laid more often that you.

16 September, 2007 - 03:26
Quote:
What do you all mean by "white guilt"?

a haste to judge actions on the basis of skin color, with the default setting that the white person, esp. one's white self, is in the wrong

Quote:
And 'male feminism' (with quotes around it I suppose yo9u think it's a joke or something) and genuine feminism?

a haste to judge actions on the basis of gender, with the default setting that the guy, esp. one's male self, is in the wrong

Quote:
Do you think everyone perporting to be either of these in insincere?

not at all, just shallow.

Quote:
Sounds to me like youse is jealous cause these guys appear to be getting laid more often that you.

oh crikey, if only i could keep up with my wife...

16 September, 2007 - 23:32
newyawka wrote:
Quote:
What do you all mean by "white guilt"?

a haste to judge actions on the basis of skin color, with the default setting that the white person, esp. one's white self, is in the wrong

Quote:
And 'male feminism' (with quotes around it I suppose yo9u think it's a joke or something) and genuine feminism?

a haste to judge actions on the basis of gender, with the default setting that the guy, esp. one's male self, is in the wrong

So to be clear, because I know lots of people (like me) are prone to hyperbole: Do you think that most white people in the SDS who claim to be anti-racists, and men who identify as feminists, are really playing this game? How would you know the difference between "white guilt" and genuine anti-racism? Anti sleazy men and male feminism?

Do youtthink that feminism and anti-racism are useful parts of our movements, at all?

newyawka wrote:
Quote:
Do you think everyone purporting to be either of these in insincere?

not at all, just shallow.

This is perhaps a reiteration of the above question, but just to clarify, you think ALL male feminists and white anti-racists are "shallow"? Do you think the same thing of female feminists and anti-racists of colour?

16 September, 2007 - 23:41

Gwen what are you on about, i'm not saying being anti racist and pro feminist makes you a PC sleaze, i'm saying that alot of activists i meet from the states are overly PC white guilt ridden middle class muppets, my favourite was some wanker trying to force northern irish sectarian conflict into a racialised discourse. And at a push i'd say i'm pro feminist (with a thousand qualifiers) but i thnk men who go around referring to themselves as such are usually shallow pricks looking to impress, i mean it's the difference between some cracker sayying they're anti racist and pro claiming themselves all for 'Black Power'.

And yes the guy's i know that are most into flaunting their oh so PC gender politics are mostly sleazey arseholes.

16 September, 2007 - 23:54

i know no-one in SDS. revol made a comment about "yank activists", and yes, most yank activists i've known - and i've known a few, being of a certain age - have been hasty to judge actions as characteristic of a person's skin color or gender.

Quote:
Do youtthink that feminism and anti-racism are useful parts of our movements, at all?

i have no idea what feminism is anymore. my idea of antiracism is not some straining, compensatory antiwhitism.

17 September, 2007 - 02:09
newyawka wrote:
Quote:
Do youtthink that feminism and anti-racism are useful parts of our movements, at all?

i have no idea what feminism is anymore.

Hmmm.

17 September, 2007 - 02:35
Flint wrote:
newyawka wrote:
Quote:
Do youtthink that feminism and anti-racism are useful parts of our movements, at all?

i have no idea what feminism is anymore.

Hmmm.

i think that's quite a fair comment though, feminism without affix or pre fix is essentially meaningless, it's worse than 'socialism' ffs.

17 September, 2007 - 12:49

I dunno all the feminists I've ever met have been fairly consistent with each other in many respects, all the feminists orgs I've met likewise. If you narrow it down to something like anarcha-feminist it can get very specific.

17 September, 2007 - 13:09

isnt feminism and supporting womens struggles implicit with anti-capitalism and libertarian communism? I really dont understand this whole "im a feminist man" thing. Either you support and/or work towords women liberating themselves (as you would with the working class) or you do not.

17 September, 2007 - 16:25
x357997 wrote:
isnt feminism and supporting womens struggles implicit with anti-capitalism and libertarian communism? I really dont understand this whole "im a feminist man" thing. Either you support and/or work towords women liberating themselves (as you would with the working class) or you do not.

quite, it's as an anarchist i support womens struggle not as some disingenous 'male feminist', which has always come across to me like some white kid proclaiming himself black because 'blackness is a state of mind' or some such shit.I have things to say on 'womens issues' (somehow sexuality, and gender discussion has ended up as 'womens issues') but i'm not a women and my resistance to patriarhy and sexism does not come from putting myself in the place of a women but from my own experiance of them, those seeking to put themselves in the shoes of women are more than likely more interesting in getting inside their knickers or at best just being soo ubber right on.

17 September, 2007 - 19:14

Revol you're a cunt.

17 September, 2007 - 19:55
Nate wrote:
Revol you're a cunt.

probably, but how?

17 September, 2007 - 20:45
x357997 wrote:
isnt feminism and supporting womens struggles implicit with anti-capitalism and libertarian communism? I really dont understand this whole "im a feminist man" thing. Either you support and/or work towords women liberating themselves (as you would with the working class) or you do not.

I think it's a pretty fair argument to state that patriarchal oppression predates capitalism. I suppose it's how elastic you want to be with the word "capitalism" and to whether you would apply that to all economically stratified societies, but there can still be a lot of problems that seem to be patriarchal oppression even without much of an economic stratification besides gender.

Engels argued that patriarchy was the first class distinction and laid the ground work for latter class oppression. It certainly is ancient, but I don't think that progression is inevitable. Also, I think it's probably quite possible to have an economically stratified society and/or capitalism that does not make gender one of the big economic and power divisions (possible... I didn't say likely); that is certainly what many pro-capitalist liberal feminists argue for.

17 September, 2007 - 23:29
x357997 wrote:
isnt feminism and supporting womens struggles implicit with anti-capitalism and libertarian communism? I really dont understand this whole "im a feminist man" thing. Either you support and/or work towords women liberating themselves (as you would with the working class) or you do not.

If only!

You are so naive it's almost cute.

But no, feminism has it's own outlook, ideas, stories, methods, organisation, challenges and cannons distinct from anarchism. I think the two can intersect quite well and they definitely complement each other, but one is not given in the case of the other.

This is the most concise and best definition of feminism I've come across:

Living Our Visions: Building Feminist Community by Donna Hawxhurst and Sue Morrow (1984, Phoenix, Selfpublished) pages 11-14

Quote:
Second Chance (1982) a local feminist discussion group, clarified their vision of feminism with the following definition:
A feminist:
1.Recognises women have been and are oppressed, and that women's oppression is related to a social phenomenon (that is, women's oppression does not result from biological inferiority)
2.Recognises her own oppression as a woman at a personal level
3.Has recognised her own and her sisters' oppression, and consequently has become committed to some form of action
4.Labels herself unapologetically as a feminist

...

Finally, the authors emphasise the importance of action as a critical component of feminism
Feminism is a call to action. It can never be simply a belief system. Without action, feminism is merely empty rhetoric which cancels itself out.

If someone is not acting in ways which are specifically, consciously feminist, they aren't a feminist. I think of people who say they are feminist just because they "believe women are equal" or some such shite are a bit like someone collecting baseball cards and claiming to be a baseball player because of that.

Lots of anarchos talk the talk, but when it comes down to it do they really support women's struggles? By support I don't just mean with words, I mean with action, and not the glorious sort of action but the hard kind? Calling other men on sexism, doing non-public organising (OK you go to Take Back the Night, but what about organising it? postering?), working through their own patriarchy? Well, some do and some don't. You don't automatically get into the feminist club just cause you're an anarchist. Just like you aren't automatically a feminist cause you're a woman. Obviously it makes more sense to be that way, jsut like for anarchos, but no one said sense ruled the world.

Earlier in this thread we were talking about how some anarchos apparently support anything a woman does as feminist, or a black person does as liberatory. I dunno, I have never noticed that sort of behaviour but then I don't live in the US. Without any specific case examples, it seems like the kind of criticism which might be levelled at activist/organisers supporting ANY feminist venture, which can be perceived in the broader Left as useless, stupid, a waste of time, not needed, man hating etc.

pink black star