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for those who recognise that to be against racism and sexism naturally leads one to anti speciesismNo it doesn't. And it is quite offensive to put AR and human-liberatory politics on the same level. You are an anthropomorphist par excellance.
no what is offensive is the humam centered arrogance of people such as yourself who act in opposition to enslavement,domination and torture of humans but your circle of compassion ends and does not extend to non human animals.your compassion ends where your own selfishness begins and your remark is what is offensive and shows clearly the problem.you dont want to be oppressed but are happy to oppress others.
Also saying that racism and speciesism are the same is pretty disgustingly offensive.
Racism is based on the idea that there are inherent behavioural differences between races. Racism is bad because it, and this central premise, is wrong.
"Speciesism" (what a ridiculous name) is based on the idea that species are different, which is true.
Thus you're comparing the unfair discrimination against blacks with the entirely fair "discrimination" against goldfish. You tread on insects and kill them all the time, do I take it you value their life the same as a human?
"Speciesism" (what a ridiculous name) is based on the idea that species are different, which is true.Thus you're comparing the unfair discrimination against blacks with the entirely fair "discrimination" against goldfish. You tread on insects and kill them all the time, do I take it you value their life the same as a human?
what a brilliant example of misunderstanding specieism 
I dont think you honestly think John. that someone would be so stupid as to create an "ism" based on dismissing the fact that different species are different
Specieism is a discrimination based on subject species rather than some qualities such as intelligence or ability to experience pain. So an example of a speciest act would be to say that a brain dead person is worth 1000 chimpanzee lives just because they are human.
Or, a life of a dog is more valuable than life of a pig (equivalent intelligence levels and both social animals with sophisticated skills) just because their cultural value for humans.
It is also specieist, not to mention anti-scientific attitude to create a false split between humans and animals like there was more in common between chimpanzees and goldfish, than there are between humans and chimpanzees.
It is not specieist to say that healthy humans life is more valuable than goldfish - i am aware that some AR people talk like it is and talk about equality of life, but in practise no one acts like that (one example is killing numerous flees just to make one dogs life more convenient).
Its also not racist or sexist or some other ist to say your sister is more valuable to you than some stranger.
JDMF is correct, specieism is based on the idea that animals are valued according to species rather than qualities.
Of course, the simple fact is that it will always be humans making such moral calls and therefore specieism is inherent, and is not comparable to racism or sexism. Unless of course we accept that we could have anti racism or sexism based purely on the jugdement and moral enlightenment of white men.
So an example of a speciest act would be to say that a brain dead person is worth 1000 chimpanzee lives just because they are human.
I'm guessing this is the indignant reaction you're looking for, but what the fuck!
Who the fuck wouldn't value a brain dead human over 1000 chimpanzees??
Me.
I might value the thoughts and feelings of their relatives but .
But I'd also wonder what sort of scenario we would ever be in whereby it was a choice between killing 1000 chimps and a brain dead person?
I mean it sounds like my mad christian biology teacher who told me she would choose the extinction of all non human species over the ending of one human life.
Me.I might value the thoughts and feelings of their relatives but .
But I'd also wonder what sort of scenario we would ever be in whereby it was a choice between killing 1000 chimps and a brain dead person?
So say said braindead person had some illness that could only be staved off by a medicine made from chimpanzee brains, and it required 1000 brains to make enough to save their life, you're saying it'd be wrong to do it?
I mean it sounds like my mad christian biology teacher who told me she would choose the extinction of all non human species over the ending of one human life.
No it doesn't.
i really don't consider flushing a spider down the toilet the equilvalent of drowning a person.
i'd never wash a spider down the sink! in fact ive even rescued flies from being washed down the sink before, however if i knew an AR person who'd physically harmed a cleaner who worked at an animal lab i'd quite happily throw them into the nearest river.
revol68 wrote:
Me.I might value the thoughts and feelings of their relatives but .
But I'd also wonder what sort of scenario we would ever be in whereby it was a choice between killing 1000 chimps and a brain dead person?So say said braindead person had some illness that could only be staved off by a medicine made from chimpanzee brains, and it required 1000 brains to make enough to save their life, you're saying it'd be wrong to do it?
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I mean it sounds like my mad christian biology teacher who told me she would choose the extinction of all non human species over the ending of one human life.No it doesn't.
Yes it would be wrong, and totally irrational.
Why keep someone who is brain dead alive? Especially if they are going to suffer from various diseases?
I'd personally rather let them die in dignity and I certainly wouldn't want 1000 chimps killed plus all the resources wasted in order to allow me to lie in a brain dead state.
I'm actually appalled at Jacks belief in the sancrosanct nature of "life". I mean how the fuck can he justify the killing of 1000 chimps in order to stop a brain dead body from developing a disease? What next the wiping out of the amazon so that dead bodies can be kept maggot free?
I'm actually appalled at Jacks belief in the sancrosanct nature of "life". I mean how the fuck can he justify the killing of 1000 chimps in order to stop a brain dead body from developing a disease? What next the wiping out of the amazon so that dead bodies can be kept maggot free?
We're not debating euthanasia. You haven't said anything about whether there's any chance of revival etc. etc.
Why the fuck should I have to 'justify' it? It's an animal, which can be put to use.
Some animals you eat, some (in this hypothetical example) are used to save lives.
If tens of thousands of dead animals are acceptable so you can have a more enjoyable diet, then 1000 are acceptable so someone can stay alive. Altho I suppose for you on this 'pro-choice' on euthanasia apparently means 'enforced euthanasia'. 
No it doesn't.
There was that TV programe last week or so where they made some guy brain dead to perform some operation, then revived him, for example. Or perhaps that was some other kinda death, hm, not sure.
But the point still stands. If someone has chosen to be kept alive, then tbh I think their wishes in that regard, however illogical, have just as much weight as someone who decides they want to eat a more tasty but less healthy diet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death
Brain death is defined as a complete and irreversible cessation of brain activity. Absence of apparent brain function is not enough. Evidence of irreversibility is also required. Brain-death is often confused with the state of vegetation.
what if the brain dead guy was fash and it had been proven by science that the chimps had left leaning sympathies?
Then I wouldn't really care, I mean I don't hold some innate magic right to life that everyone has in all circumstances. I just think that in pretty much all circumstances a human life is worth incomparable amounts in animal life.
I just think that in pretty much all circumstances a human life is worth incomparable amounts in animal life.
True, I'd happily kill 1000 paedos to save 1 brain dead chimp.
If this isn't a joke, were your previous posts kneejerk anti-AR-ism?
High School students struck and marched across Germany yesterday in protest against classroom overcrowding, lack of teachers, and the pressure of examinations.
When earthquakes, floods, droughts and volcanic eruptions strike where we live, they are usually considered instances of crisis and unmitigated natural disaster. Yet, recently I have had opportunities to witness how the meaning of crisis depends entirely on one's point of view.
for those who recognise that to be against racism and sexism naturally leads one to anti speciesism there will be a showing of BEHIND THE MASK at the basement,8th october 7;00pm.you have heard the government lies,the media lies,now see the film and get the true story of those who risk everything to rescue animals from oppression torture and murder.
more info; info@mapsoc.org
www.mapsoc.org.uk