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Lee
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Joined: 1-12-06
Dec 1 2006 21:52
New to it

Just searched for a socialist forum and managed to get to this site. I'm a Student at Northampton and I'm from the area...

I'm after information on meetings etc, and what is generally involved with meetings, numbers of people, whether newcomers are welcome etc etc?

I have been to a few Socialist Party [of Wales] meetings in the past, but I don't know if this is the same thing? If anyone could give me some information I'd appreciate it.

Lee

mk12
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Joined: 29-12-04
Dec 1 2006 22:09

I've sent you a private message!

Lee
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Dec 1 2006 22:12

Sorry, another point of information... As I understand it, libertarianism is a philosophy which bassically promotes greed, division, and is generally anti-humanitarian and anti-welfare... so I'm a little intregued at it's use on this website:
"We want to abolish government and the control of production by the market. We want workers and service users to democratically control their own workplaces and see ordinary people run the world together without money or authority. This is what we call libertarian communism."
(http://libcom.org/thought/libertarian-communism-capitalism-direct-action-introduction)

Is this not the definition of socialism? Just seems a bit odd that this form of [self]governance is referred to by using two words which conjure up distinctly negative images...

Alternatively, just tell me to shut up wink

mk12
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Dec 1 2006 22:22

I think "libertarian" is used to counter the common ideas around socialism, in that it's seen by most people as "authoritarian" (former USSR and similar countries like Cuba, N. Korea etc). So "libertarian socialism" is a form of socialism which is democratic and based around self-management, rather than control 'from above' by a party or by a state acting on people's behalves.

I think!

Lee
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Joined: 1-12-06
Dec 1 2006 22:24

Like Democratic Socialism then? wink

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Joseph Kay
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Joined: 14-03-06
Dec 1 2006 22:25

grin

iirc, libertarianism was originally what the anarchists in france called themselves when anarchism was banned after the paris commune, and has only been a right-wing market philosophy since the 60s or so. i mean i'd agree that "Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice and Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - so communism should be libertarian or it is nothing, but unfortunately years of leninism and its offshoots have given it a pretty authoritarian reputation which the 'libertarian-' prefix seeks to remedy.

Welcome to the boards btw! smile

Mike Harman
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Joined: 7-02-06
Dec 1 2006 22:27

libertarian was (iirc) originally used by French anarchists when anarchist organisations were banned. It was subsequently co-opted by American free market capitalists.

To an extent it's as mis-used as communism, socialism and anarchism, but when we wrote that but the apparent contradiction of libertarian and communist is one of few ways to enforce their real meaning (at least one poster on here says that communists who aren't libertarians aren't communists - so we should drop the libertarian as an unnecessary add-on).

Mike Harman
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Dec 1 2006 22:28

JK beat me to it.

The Builder
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Joined: 29-11-06
Dec 1 2006 22:28

Son, stay the fuck away from anarchists.

mk12
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Joined: 29-12-04
Dec 1 2006 22:30

They're not anarchists - they're "Libertarian socialists"! grin

john
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Joined: 9-07-06
Dec 1 2006 22:30
Lee wrote:
Sorry, another point of information... As I understand it, libertarianism is a philosophy which bassically promotes greed, division, and is generally anti-humanitarian and anti-welfare... so I'm a little intregued at it's use on this website:
"We want to abolish government and the control of production by the market. We want workers and service users to democratically control their own workplaces and see ordinary people run the world together without money or authority. This is what we call libertarian communism."
(http://libcom.org/thought/libertarian-communism-capitalism-direct-action-introduction)

Is this not the definition of socialism? Just seems a bit odd that this form of [self]governance is referred to by using two words which conjure up distinctly negative images...

Alternatively, just tell me to shut up ;)

hi.

this does fit extraordinarily well with a discussion going on here

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Lazy Riser
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Joined: 6-05-05
Dec 2 2006 15:29

Hi

Quote:
libertarianism is a philosophy which bassically promotes greed, division, and is generally anti-humanitarian and anti-welfare

Even right wing libertarians (say, those who would stand against neighbourhood assemblies having veto over property) would argue their economics are designed to cope with human selfishness rather than promote it.

Love

LR

Nick
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Joined: 5-07-06
Dec 20 2006 00:24

Hi Lee, I too am a student at the venerable seat of learning that is the University of Northampton, though i haven't been there this term as I've been on a practise placement in Brum. We have a Solidarity Federation (anarcho-syndicalist) group in Northampton, as well as a broader 'Socialist Forum' that is involved in various campaigns. We have a few people involved in these groups who are part of the university in various ways. I'll pm you with my contact details if yer interested - be good to meet up.