Coming Soon: Anarchism for Drunk Punks

hey rich, is this what punks say about anarchism or a basic guide to anarchism FOR punks?

dont feed the drunk punks...there is a sign you know....

brilliant idea! look forward to the text. We do some punk benefit gigs and this would be a handy thing to be able to give people!

im kinda undecided if this is a good idea or not... giving drunk punks dumbed-down basic info on anarchism seems a bit like a recipe for disastre to me <:-( do we really want city centre riots on our hands with drunk punks running about telling cops ; "this is the class war, man, we're with norwich anarchists!!" ????? omg no. no. nooooooo.........!
maybe its just my negative experiences of drunk punkers, including myself. and people in general.
i may have to give critical support, or just hand-wringing worry-generating nagging, to this one...

(sorry to stick oar in....must remind self have left group must remind self have left group must remind self have left group must remind self have left group)

I think that it's a REALLY REALLY good idea. Firstly, I think it's a bit patronising to think that a whole group of people have no potential, just because some of them are wankers . They're the people playing/coming to benefit gigs to keeop your group funded, why not try to engage with them? It's a perfect oppportunity, and what harm could it do? They're hardly going to run out and riot (although I can't really see the problem with that), I don't think anarchists have actually got anything that exciting to say - and from past experiance brew crew types rarely get off their butt even if something directly affects them. (One of the first and most embarrasing actions I took part in was a protest against the local drinking ban and the way it would demonise street drinkers etc...they couldn't be arsed to be invovled in that FFS, they're not gonna go and start a riot cos you told them the true meaning of anarchism). Also, most of the punkas at the gigs aren't old brew crew types, they're all pretty young and I've had thought exactly the kind of fodder for a local anarchist group?
And I can't see anything wrong with giving people basic info - most people don't have a degree in economics or whatever, to be honest half the timne I don't know what you guys are on about. It can be very alienating when your first experiance of politics is someone trying to throw you in at the deep end, and I can't see anything but a positive side to trying to make things releveant to peoples own lives...ie, if you were trying to talk to an NHS worker about anarchism, you'd relate it to how it would affect pay, hospital conditions, safety etc, the same goes for anyone. I think the more that anarchists take their heads out their arses and start engaging with non-political types on a normal level the better. I don't see why anarchists shouldn't be trying to reach everyone, or are some people not to be trusted with knowledge and information because they might not do with it what you want?

I think this whole thing is an absolutely terrible idea and I'm surprised somebody a bit more diplomatic off the rest of this site hasn't said this already.

Punks (yes, even the drunk ones) are irrelevant to anarchism. At best one or two punks might make a break with that scene and develop real politics but targetting yourself at them is rediculous when the idea is to put forward your ideas to the public. A politicised punk sub-culture still remains a sub-culture and largely seperate from the real world (which contains real people and real opportunity for change).

Actually, I was wondering which was the more irrelevant connection: Anarchism to Punks, or Punks to Anarchism. I didn't comment as I though that posting on this thread was probably more irrelevant than either of them, and as this post shows, I can probably be at least as undiplomatically as you. Also, I checked it as I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to do so.

Devrim

Also....genuine question, how do people who think this is a bad idea think it should be handled? Would they rather that people didn't correct said punks about what anarchism means? or not put on punk gigs at all (despite the fact that they've raised shit loads of money for really good causes)? Or what? I'm genuinely befuddled! Someones heard people sprouting a load of shit about anarchism and done something practical to educate them, I really really really don't see the problem? True, most punks are total losers, but then so are most anarchists I know.

So, what should Rich do instead?

As far as I know, the reason behind it is because more than most groups that might be at gigs (ie a metal gig, a DJed gig, a ska gig etc, all of which by the way Rightous Promotions do in addition to punk gigs), punks have a tendancy to doodle circled A's all over themselves and shout about "ANARCHY!", so it's probably more important to aim a leaflet directly at them. Incidently, there's already at least one basic guide to Anarchism, that is in circulation at other gigs/events.

I don't think anyone is claiming it's particularly important to aim politics at punks, just that if they're a particular group who more than most shout on about anarchism, and people who are putting on the gigs keep having to encounter this issue, maybe it's worth doing a specific version of the current basic guide to anarchisn aimed directly at them. I'm sure if at the next ska gig, all the skankers suddenly showed a completely misrepresentitive view on anarchism and started mouthing off about it, they'd get their very own leaflet too. But evidently the people running the gigs don;t seem to think that's neccessary.

aye, the homepage - and the site in general are still looking pretty dull. it is dragging on a bit but making it all pretty and logical to navigate is a priority. apologies all.

but, just perhaps this is where some members spend a lot time and effort anyway (i'm guessing they enjoy the gigs) it would make sense. Are Norwich targtting punks as a statergy, i doubt it. Oh and punks are real people with jobs and kids and school...guy you really come across like a self righteous prick here. If they wrote one for schoolkids, Starbucks workers i guess there would tailor it to suit. Yes it is obvisously due the (preceived)connection between punk and anarchy, that punks can spew bollocks whilst claiming to be anarchists (not that it's a particular preserve of punks)still when i find this REAL world i will run up to Joe Normal and shake his hand and tell him the good news.

I don't think it's really appropriate for me to keep commenting as I'm not in Norwich Anarchists, nor am I Rich, but for the hundreth time, I don;t think the intention is for them to tareht punks as some recruiting mission or something. They're anarchists, they keep coming into regular cpntact with a particular group of people who misrepresent anarchism, more than any other subculture they come into contact with, and they're tailoring a basic guide to Anarchisn to be more accesable to those people in the hope that they'll be slightly better ebucated abouth the subject. It seems a completely logical, practicle step to take - I'm inclined to think that's not what your problem is - as Jason C said, they'd probably do the same for other groups ie School kids and would you have a problem with that? Or did you have a kneejerk reaction because it's punks? I can see that if you thought they were just trying to go on some major punk recruitment, you'd think that might be dumb, but the reality has been made clear over and over. The facts are - a lot of money is raised through gigs. Some of those gigs are punk gigs. At the punk gigs, a lot of people keep spouting bollocks about what they think anarchism is. Someone has taken it upon themselves to do a basic guide to Anarchism in a punky style because it will be more likely to be read in those circumstances. Even if you think that's a pointless waste of time, of someone wants to do that, what does it matter? Is it going to in any way damage the anarchist movement?

Okay, I'll retract my oar until Rich or someone from NA has a say cos I feel a bit inappropriate here.

LOL the return of the real, your very words of denouncment only serve to affirm your punk rockness.

Probably because I had an assignment due in today based on my interview with Propagandhi. The more I denounce it the more it becomes a part of me .

As sub-editor I know it well. If you're implying that it reflects badly on Norwich Anarchists I should point out that it is no longer their newspaper but now an independant publication, so apart from the fact that they have the misfortune to be from the same city as us, I can't really see the relevance.