Any updates on the police killing of Tyler Cassidy?
Mar 12 2009 05:41
As i'm sure most of you are probably aware, last year a handful of vic police shot dead a white nationalist teenager in a park in melbourne's suburbs: http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=1544
I think it's been about four months since the shooting but i haven't read or heard a peep about the case since then. There were suggestions of an inquest into the shooting - something i think is actually mandatory in cases of fatal shootings by police - but there have been no updates on an inquest if there is one going on.
Has anyone heard or read anything about that? Or know of a way to find more info out? It would seem obvious from reading various reports on the matter that their action, some three or four officers shooting this kid in the chest twelve times, was at least slightly dubious. Though by the same token i guess the media did seem more interested in the sensational nature of his political views or choice of friends than in the question of police violence, training or response to 'crisis' situations?
Mar 12 2009 10:17
#2
his politics were irrelevant to why the cops killed him: he was killed for being a fucked up teenager.
Mar 12 2009 11:03
#3
weeler wrote:
White nationalist murdered, why should we care?
Are you for real?
You don't care about state murder if it means killing teenage nationalists?
I guess you should care coz the cops didn't shoot the kid as a 'white nationalist' - as if that would make it 'better' anyway - they shot him as a 'random teenager whose probably going through some shit'. Like they and NSW police have shot and killed so many other people; and particularly people with mental health issues.
I don't see why an individuals politics matter when we're talking about people who are being murderd by the state? Do you take the same approach to the rights of workers with reactionary politics? 'Fuck em'
But most workers have 'reactionary politics' in communist terms?
Quote:
his politics were irrelevant to why the cops killed him: he was killed for being a fucked up teenager.
Exactly.
Mar 12 2009 11:11
#4
circle A-K wrote:
I don't see why an individuals politics matter when we're talking about people who are being murderd by the state? Do you take the same approach to the rights of workers with reactionary politics? 'Fuck em'
You are the one who felt the need to qualify him as a white nationalist in your post. You obviously think its relevant. Sure, its bad that the cops kill people but I don't see much scope for propagandising over this particular death, unless you want to pretend to care about a dead white nationalist? Seems a bit opportunist.
Mar 12 2009 11:18
#5
* Tyler is seen behaving irrationally with the knives in the centre carpark and goes to All Nations Park next to the shopping centre. More calls to police are made.
* Four police officers - two males and two females - arrive and try to negotiate with the boy.
* He approaches officers so they deploy capsicum spray, but it does not subdue him.
* Tyler urges police to kill him or he will kill them. He approaches one officer and a warning shot is fired. He ignores demands to back off and three of the four officers fire, killing him.
Oh right, so it turns out he was actually just a piece of shit.
Mar 12 2009 14:16
#6
Quote:
You are the one who felt the need to qualify him as a white nationalist in your post.
Right, and you're the one who said his death was meaningless/unimportant? Don't try to make this about me.
Quote:
You obviously think its relevant
Of course it's relevant, i also mentioned his name, the number of times he was shot etc. These are all facts of the case that have been discussed in the media. Forgive me for providing details, what a crime!
Quote:
Sure, its bad that the cops kill people but I don't see much scope for propagandising over this particular death
Lol.
I wasn't suggesting we 'propgandise' his death - if you read what i said i'm interested if anyone has any more details - specifically if anything has come from the inquest into his death. Obviously i wasn't asking for your opinion on the matter, why you're even posting about an issue you know nothing of and care little about is a bit puzzling, trolling?
Quote:
unless you want to pretend to care about a dead white nationalist? Seems a bit opportunist.
I care about cops killing people yeah, the politics of the victim are not really relevant to that. It could have been anyone, the kid wasn't targeted for his political views.
Nice evasion btw, your whole post you did nothing but accuse me of silly stuff that was completely irrelevant to this thread and what i had said. Nevermind the argument i put to you etc.
Quote:
Oh right, so it turns out he was actually just a piece of shit.
Again, so being a stupid teenager warrants the death penalty? What pathetic cynicism.
Mar 12 2009 14:36
#7
circle A-K wrote:
I care about cops killing people yeah, the politics of the victim are not really relevant to that. It could have been anyone, the kid wasn't targeted for his political views.
He wasn't targetted at all, he was an anti-social shit running around armed with knives. Fuck him.
circle A-K wrote:
Again, so being a stupid teenager warrants the death penalty? What pathetic cynicism.
There is being a stupid teenager and there is being a white nationalist, armed with knives, charging at police. I can't see why anyone would care that he died.
Mar 12 2009 22:36
#8
I think it would be interesting how the cops deal with this as it could impact on everyone, whether they are nationalist, black, or Brazilian electricians, or whatever.
I don't know if it is the same over in Oz, but no UK cop has been done for murder, while on duty, for a very very long time, if ever.
Mar 12 2009 22:53
#9
Yeh, but this is actually a clear case of self defense, not murder.
Mar 12 2009 23:16
#10
True,
but all police killings should be investigated,
it's just interesting whether they brush it under the carpet of bother to do an inquiry.
When being faced by black block the cops often talk about self defense, that's when it could impact on us.
Mar 13 2009 00:45
#11
weeler wrote:
Yeh, but this is actually a clear case of self defense, not murder.
You sound like a telegraph editorial.
Self-defence? Really?
Let's review:
-Scrawny yet obviously menacing 15 y.o. (see above) with a kitchen knife he stole from KMART (a retail store), gets confronted by three police after some complaints of anti-social behaviour (apparently he also called the police that arvo, telling them that he thought he was gonna kill somebody - sounds totally rational and together right?) and is capsicum sprayed in the face twice which fails to 'subdue' him. In what is arguably a sign of distress -, he asks the cops to kill him - 'or i'll kill you' - Serious threats aren't usually prefaced with 'kill me' now are they? Anyway, the kid apparently moves forward at the three cops and so one cop fires a 'warning shot' into the ground and then a few seconds later all three fire between 7-12 shots into his chest. This is something the victorian police have a habit of doing, killing people with mental health issues (they make up a large proportion of the victims of fatal police shootings).
You seriously think that this scrawny 15 y.o. effectively blinded twice with capsicum spray posed such a terrible threat that it required three 'well-trained' police officers to fire 7-12 shots into his chest (killing him instantly). Could they not have fired 7-12 shots into his knife arm? Though this is still excessive, the chances of it being a fatal shooting are probably much lower than copping the equivalent lead into your organ gallery.
And for what? A dubious verbal threat and displaying a knife? It's not like he actually came anywhere close to stabbing one of the officers - and when he did attempt to move forward (he was several metres away when they shot at him) he was just killed - ok. There are just so many other options available in a situation like that that it's ridiculous to assert that execution is the best thing going. I suppose you support capital punishment too? Since apparently 'knife threats' = death penatly, what other offences deserve death?
Anyway, returning to my earlier question- Do you care about the rights of workers with reactionary politics or just the 'progressive' ones? Because earlier you basically said this police murder was unimportant simply because of the victims politics (lets ignore the fact he is fucking 15 (!) and was only involved with these nationalists for like 4 months). Just wondering if you extend this apathy to other oppressed or exploited people with whom you have political disagreement.
edgar wrote:
When being faced by black block the cops often talk about self defense, that's when it could impact on us.
Exactly.
Mar 13 2009 09:57
#12
Kid armed with knives goes out with intent to murder someone, admits this to police, lunges at police saying he is going to kill them. No great injustice here, fuck him.
If someone is openly brandishing knives in my community and they get shot, I'm not going to give a fuck, no matter how cute they might look in their myspace picture.
On supporting people with reactionary views, well, you are just being an idiot. If anyone bar a white nationalist is murdered its a terrible thing. If, however, they were carrying knives and had openly admitted they were going to hurt people, then no, I really couldnt give a fuck. I don't have unconditional support for people killed by the police.
Mar 13 2009 10:00
#13
ernie wrote:
When being faced by black block the cops often talk about self defense, that's when it could impact on us.
Yeh man, teh black block. Are you 16?
circle a-k wrote:
Just wondering if you extend this apathy to other oppressed or exploited people with whom you have political disagreement.
This is a pathetic line of debate. I don't sympathise with a white nationalist wannabe killer who got shot so therefore I don't support oppressed people, presumably when killed by the cops.
Mar 13 2009 23:20
#14
Perhaps being a white nationalist and asking the cops to kill him are obvious signs of mental illness?
In which case blowing him away may have been a tad over zealous.
weeler wrote:
ernie wrote:
When being faced by black block the cops often talk about self defense, that's when it could impact on us.Yeh man, teh black block. Are you 16?
It seems a shame to patronise people just because they disagree with you.
Maybe a more constructive argument would help you appear less reactionary.
Mar 15 2009 07:09
#15
I think what everyone's trying to say here is that this kid with a kitchen knife, a mental illness, and a society that's left him on his own to go seek friends in street gangs, was shot down by the mo'fuckin police.
The WN factor is irrelevent, we're dealing with a police killing, not some kind of anti-fascist renegade cops seeking out WN gang members in skateparks to take out an cover up.
That kid could have been any number of the mentally ill youths that the public health system has abandoned to whatever lives they can find on the street.
Plus, how can he be held accountable for being associated with the politics of the racist gang he'd fallen in with? You're impressionable enough when you're 15, let alone a 15 year old who's brain isn't working quite right, i doubt that kid had a grasp on what white nationalism was, and probably just went along with it to have some friends.
State murder is state murder is state murder.
Mar 19 2009 23:03
#16
Its not state murder though you mental, if I had been there I would have shot him too, regardless of his politics. He was being an anti-social piece of shit and had stated he was determined to hurt/kill people.
Mar 20 2009 00:16
#17
He was clearly not in a stable state of mind and could have been subdued.
Mar 20 2009 03:45
#18
This is just ridiculous, if you're gonna do something, why not throw a rock at his head to knock him out and deal with him unconscious?
Mar 20 2009 08:34
#19
Or pepper spray/taser the shit out of him
Mar 20 2009 09:08
#20
Gabs wrote:
This is just ridiculous, if you're gonna do something, why not throw a rock at his head to knock him out and deal with him unconscious?
You're off the case Gabs, you're too much of a renegade. Serious though, someone comes at me with a knife saying its 'me or them' then kablamo, fuck pepper spray.
Mar 20 2009 11:18
#21
888 wrote:
He was clearly not in a stable state of mind and could have been subdued.
Echo. This is the only non-controversialist response to this story.
Mar 21 2009 14:14
#22
weeler wrote:
You're off the case Gabs, you're too much of a renegade.
Play by the book? You can keep yer stinkin book! And you can have your badge too.
Leaving this thread to continue rock-throwing target practice outside.
May 13 2009 06:09
#23
Circle A-K, you are very passionate but strange.
it was obviously self defense, have you not read all the evidence? they tried to shoot him in the legs+subdue him with pepper spray...and used a series of other techniques yet he kept advancing with 2 KNIVES. so what if he was 15? i'm 15. you think the police enjoy killing people? it is their training and protocol to shoot at a body if it is the threat. they did the right thing. and what?, so they were supposed to try everything until he had killed them all then advanced on other innocents. it could easily have turned into a really shit situation in which more than 1 were killed. it had nothing to do with his age or anything. he was a threat. sure its tragic but it's just to bad. you go be a cop, have someone run at you WITH 2 KNIVES and YOU shoot at their legs and do all this other crap and YOU just stand there and let it happen. i would like to see you do that.
just because he looked small and thin means nothing. sometimes it is the smallest and weakest that are the creepiest and most harmful to society.
May 13 2009 06:14
#24
same with gabs. yeah im sure they had time in between the running and shit to go and find a big enough rock to knock him out. they were called in instantly. they do not have time to go, oh yes this guy is young so we should pick up a big rock on the way. they do not carry large rocks with them. they didnt even really know what was going on until they got there. how old are all us people?
May 13 2009 06:15
#25
as in literally i just wanna know. that was not a part of my argument
May 13 2009 14:40
#26
I don't really advocate arming the police with rocks.
Rocks are the weapons of the proletariat. The physical weapon as opposed to the figurative weapon of the strike or of solidarity.
I remain impartial on the issue. I remain for the deaths of white-nationalists, but against police.
But i think the issue here was "why should an anarchist or communist care about police killing a white nationalist"
And some of us said "but they didn't know he was a white nationalist," or "asif this crazy kid was at all able to grasp what white nationalism is, therefore was just a jaded kid and not a nazi, therefore killing him is unjust."
And some of us said "self defence, regardless of cop or white nationalist, the situation rendered the actions in self defence."
Then some of us said "cmon, 3 cops with an array of self defence items at their disposal vs 1 kid with a couple kitchen knives?"
Etc. etc.
It's a good discussion to have, but it's all over now. Welcome to the board by the way.
White nationalist murdered, why should we care?