Hi Simono, just to say that we on libcom would be happy to help this out in any way we can. Cheers.
SSMP and full-time organising [was 'Troublemakers']
during the last strike of supersizemypay.com - there was a dispute between the Unite union officialdom and simon, who was the organiser of a particular site, that had voted to go on strike. simon took the workers side and consequently left unite.
i think anyone in a union official position has the potential to act as a recuperater of struggle. It doesn't mean they will.
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So the NDU recognised that your time as an unpaid UNITE organiser was good enough training in fucking over struggling workers to give you a paying job? Good for you.
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So UNITE didn't call SuperSizeMyPay off once it started to get beyond union control?
He's a proper union bureaucrat now - even if there's no recuperation in has past (which I doubt) there's plenty in his future.
I'm not quite sure where to even start. I'll give it a go. Please follow up if I've missed something. These internet posting are very important to me and I make sure I do it on paid company (union) time because I need some way to spend members money.
Let's start with me:
1. I wasn't at Unite to call off SuperSizeMyPay.com because I quit over a dispute relating to the Restaurant Brands (Pizza Hut) Call Center and interference/assumptions about industrial action. Thinking back on it, I think this other person was quite stressed with the campaign and was concerned (maybe even rightly) that the campaign was screwed and had lost its steam.
2. I started getting paid $320 a week near the end of the campaign for 80 hours+. I made sure i didn't give a cent away and invested it all in banking. (I'm recuperating it now...)
3. Am I union bureaucrat? I have incredible difficulties working for the NDU. But by being in a paid position I can accept that's bureaucratic no matter what I or any other rosy eyes anarcho or radical is trying to do. Can you be strategically bureaucratic? Probably not. Does it help? Not sure. I want to help people and there wasn't anything else going on with work place struggles so I started working for NDU. I'm sure I've made a difference of some sorts and I'm not an organiser anymore btw.
4. I recently organised Rainbows End (NZ's only theme park) in my spare time with my own money with 1 or 2 days on work time (but I work in the weekends unpaid so I think that makes it up for the union - my work life balance is great, ask my girlfriend. no do it, because i can't because she's doing the same thing organising unorganised supermarkets who are on minimum wage.) I certainly didn't try to fuck those struggling workers over. Yes, definetly could have done it without working for the union - so maybe I should have as an activist outside of unions. that question plauges me everyday.
As for recuperation... I suppose I'll have to wait and see what you can dish up. if you would like theres this right wing guy in nz with a website at www.newzeal.blogspot.com - you could ask him for advice.
Then there's the campaign, SuperSizeMyPay.com:
1. I'm not sure what you know or understand about the campaign beyond what you've read. Most of what's been written has been wrong or misleading. It may even have been worse than what people have written - but certainly nothing has really shown what was actually going on. I wrote up my own account but decided not to publish it at the time and I can't find where I put it. (I might have framed it in my "I once was an anarchist before I sold out and this might affect my CV" folder.
Fucking the fast food workers over… I’ll assume that would be the Restaurant Brands workers since I wasn’t there to screw over the BK, Wendy’s or McDonalds. Although I suppose my previous action could have impacted the future strength of that part of the campaign.
So, how could we have screwed them over:
a) They got paid less, or we just took their union fees.
b) We blocked the desire to organise or as a result of the experience of the campaign their desire was realised and we turned the tap "off"
c) Something else.
A. Well they certainly didn’t get paid less.
There were definitely no big pay rises. I opposed the offer the whole time and was called fucking irresponsible for doing so. But in the end I didn’t do the voting, it was the union members. Not many, and from memory there may have never even been a ratification. The Starbucks workers and the Call Center got paid more. Starbucks workers had a higher union membership, they also probably in the eyes of the company deserve more because they want a higher pedigree of low paid worker. The call Center certainly only got more than anyone else because they took shit loads of industrial action and they are strategically in a better position and we almost had 100% union density. Either way their union fees would by covered by the pay increases.
B. Did we block their burning desire to organize?
Not sure. I certainly was pushing things, and often when the members weren’t even at that "stage". I’m not even sure where they were at. There wasn’t actually that much day to day involvement in the campaign organising, course they doing their stuff on the floor. It was largely an external campaign with some sites being active. In many ways it shows how keen/easy/”natural” it is for people to take action that a bunch of people come in and say, hey, why not take action. They can see the point, you give them the support etc etc But keep in mind there weren’t that many stores involved in the strikes. Up at the old call center we were pulling them out all the time. But that was a different situation. There are like 16,000 fast food workers and only 2000 max in the union.
In fact the reason why I quit was over one of the officials involvement in trying to get people to stop striking the day before negotiations. I hadn’t even called the strike, t'was the old trade union conciousness members.
C. Something else.
Yeah I was pretty pissed off that there was a lul of action over Christmas. The word came down from above. I can’t even remember why we didn’t just go ahead anyway. I think we didn’t have enough people keen or maybe we didn’t spend enough time. I wasn’t actually on sites anymore at this time.
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So UNITE didn't call SuperSizeMyPay off once it started to get beyond union control?
Did it get called off once beyond union control?
We’ll the call centre took that strike they wanted to take anyway. It was great, one of the best. They company tried to block me legally from coming up when they wanted to take it. Turned out to be the biggest strike there. They ended up accepting the deal they got offered afterwards though (even though I tried to encourage them not to - especially not a 2 year deal) but they got about $1.70 extra an hour which is about 11%. Certainly one of the highest pay rises nz workers had gotten in low paid jobs in a long time. They didn’t have youth rates. The staff accepted it unanimously.
What about the other sites? Well, all I can say was that I felt we were weak elsewhere and the remaining staff didn’t have the support or ability or the members weren’t keen enough for any more action.
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So the NDU recognised that your time as an unpaid UNITE organiser was good enough training in fucking over struggling workers to give you a paying job? Good for you.
I’m not sure what they recognized because I’m certainly not doing now what I should be doing. In fact I feel bogged down doing really strange things. I’m doing design and other stuff and really don’t have that much contact with workers (cept for getting pissed off and organising rainbows end). Still got a lot of “power” being a publicity officer writing the newspaper etc but I rarely put in what I’d think I should.
Anyway - shit I’m meant to be working, in my spare time, late at night again , doing an all nighter, to screw the workers over. I’ve got a big Certificate with an A+ in screwing workers in recognition by the NDU of my skills in doing so.
Feel free to email me Peter or keep this going. We’ve got to keep the fight on the internet going. so if you keep replying to this post it might get a high enough google ranking that a worker might even read this one day.
Simon
Revol68, I see you've added greatly to this discussion. Thankyou. Feel free to add to the discussion. I fully support exploration of me being a full time union hack . You obviously agree with the above post, so please share your feelings. Think of it as therapy, I'm sure you'll feel better afterwards.
Please, bring it on.
Hey like a serious question though - what's the suggestion from Revol68 and Peter for me to do. I'm really interested. Any advice or experience from your own organisations would be good. (And killing myself is not a useful answer.) Practical stuff would be good and experiences from helping workers organise in your own areas would be even better. That's what we are trying to do here and not all of 'em are sellout full tim ehacks like me.
SImon
Jesus, what is it with these pricks, they get paid to be activists and then lambast everyone with 'what are you doing' etc.
I'm pointing out that there is a fundamental contradiction between anarcho syndicalism and full time organisers, a problem you actually recognised but then try and sneak around with the pathetic 'but I can be different', which is exactly what everyone tells themselves before fucking over principles long learnt.
I never said I can be different. If you read it I said that was no excuse! In fact I'm only doing this because I feel (weakly) that I can at least make some difference probably more than if I was organising outside by myself. In some ways I think this is my in security. I did pretty well with Rainbows End and SuperSizeMyPay.com without being paid. There was money infolved in SSMP that came from somewhere obviously, but a lot of it was done without money. in fact, I'm not even sure who else in anarcho circles has had as much success in workplace organising? Of course the word success is a debateable term - what do we mean by that, what about long term activism etc yes yes. I've got a lot to learn. But we actually went out there and did something and engaged. The worlds first starbucks strike. We shook up unions here a lot. I've tried to hand in my notice many times, and I know that's lame and I should just do it. I should do a lot of things. You can't imagine the debates I have with my partner (who also works here) about quitting and what we'd do. There just isn't that much support for anarcho-syndicalist stuff or even radical stuff. I want to be doing something, and this must have just been the easy way to do it. It's weak sure. But you still haven't added to the debate.
what debate, sure I could probably go to the T&G and big up all the stupid activist shit i've been involved in, get myself a job and give myself a pat on the back for 'doing something', i could also get paid to 'do something' but it'd be bullshit. The fact there doesn't seem to be much happening at the moment in many sectors makes it all the more important that people don't just throw in their principles and politics and just go 'do something' and that's not just in relation to the unions but in relation to wider politics like a principled internationalism, how much easier would have been for anarchists in northern ireland to just throw in their opposition to all nationalisms and join one or the other as it was 'doing something'. there are also strikes and wildcats going on that it's important for anarcho syndicalists/council communists to support and it's also important we don't shrink from our criticisms of the Unions.
it might be alot easier to skip the whole building things from the very base but without it everything you build is just on shaky foundations.
edit - revol, this post of mine was made before your quite sensible one above where you actually make a constructive point, so bear that in mind. Also, you wouldn't get a job with the T&G.
revol68 wrote:
Jesus, what is it with these pricks, they get paid to be activists and then lambast everyone with 'what are you doing' etc.I'm pointing out that there is a fundamental contradiction between anarcho syndicalism and full time organisers, a problem you actually recognised but then try and sneak around with the pathetic 'but I can be different', which is exactly what everyone tells themselves before fucking over principles long learnt.
Actually your supposed "anarcho-syndicalist principle" on paid organisers hasn't been adopted by any anarcho-syndicalist organisation that has had any kind of success. The CNT and IWW both used paid organisers. You are the one stating it's a "fundamental contradiction" with no evidence to back it up. From most of your initial posts on this subject it was clear you didn't even know what an organiser was, you were slagging them off for things which aren't in their power, like being able to call off strikes.
As demonstrated by simon's example, there' no inherent difference in their work from volunteer organisers - which he has done as well, and so no inherent difference from people just unionising somewhere. If you have a specific criticism, say it. Although I would say save it for a relevant thread, don't just have your rude little hissy fits all over the boards.
John. wrote:
revol68 wrote:
Jesus, what is it with these pricks, they get paid to be activists and then lambast everyone with 'what are you doing' etc.I'm pointing out that there is a fundamental contradiction between anarcho syndicalism and full time organisers, a problem you actually recognised but then try and sneak around with the pathetic 'but I can be different', which is exactly what everyone tells themselves before fucking over principles long learnt.
Actually your supposed "anarcho-syndicalist principle" on paid organisers hasn't been adopted by any anarcho-syndicalist organisation that has had any kind of success. The CNT and IWW both used paid organisers. You are the one stating it's a "fundamental contradiction" with no evidence to back it up. From most of your initial posts on this subject it was clear you didn't even know what an organiser was, you were slagging them off for things which aren't in their power, like being able to call off strikes.
As demonstrated by simon's example, there' no inherent difference in their work from volunteer organisers - which he has done as well, and so no inherent difference from people just unionising somewhere. If you have a specific criticism, say it. Although I would say save it for a relevant thread, don't just have your rude little hissy fits all over the boards.
the CNT did not have paid union organisers, people at most had meagre expenses covered.
I'm not patting myself on the back, I'm defending accusations. doing something for workers actually means something for me, especially when it gets workers something. taking action and organising is a good practical experience can radicalise people. that's the only reason i'm involved, and that's also the reason why I'm not sure why I'm involved. i certainly don't shirk from my criticism of unions either - but I also recognise they're doing more than any other group. I think the good thinigs that come from being involved with the low level of activity in nz makes up for the fact i have to deal with being in an organisation i'm not comfortable with (principlaly). But hey i'm not comfortable with it. I've already sent in my resignation anyhoo.
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From most of your initial posts on this subject it was clear you didn't even know what an organiser was, you were slagging them off for things which aren't in their power, like being able to call off strikes.
actually John. this is bullshit, go back and read my posts on the issue and whilst they don't have such powers they certainly willbe expected to argue the unions line if they want their paycheck at the end of the month.
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it might be alot easier to skip the whole building things from the very base but without it everything you build is just on shaky foundations
well said. the choice, however that activists and anarchists in the trade union movement have had in the last couple of years in NZ has been between not building anything at all or getting involved in and helping to build left-wing unions like Unite and the NDU.
i've worked temporarily as a paid union recruiter but that doesn't mean i don't want to build worker power from below.
however only now with the formation of an anarcho-syndicalist network in aotearoa does the potential exist for this to be built with any form of succcess. plus people like myself who once knew nothing of organising/running a union now have a semblance of how to (and how not to) run a union.
I just left a job where it went from almost zero union membership to workplace meetings of 30 people, no support from 'the union' at all, lots and lots of informal organisation trying to get various things dealt with. Apart from spending my lunch breaks talking about stuff, I managed to do everything on work time, as did anyone else who was interested there. No need for a full time organiser and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have been welcome if they'd been sniffing around. All the stuff that we actually did was completely outside the framework - by the time I'd left they'd had their second official meeting to set things up.
simono wrote:
Hey like a serious question though - what's the suggestion from Revol68 and Peter for me to do. I'm really interested. Any advice or experience from your own organisations would be good. (And killing myself is not a useful answer.) Practical stuff would be good and experiences from helping workers organise in your own areas would be even better. That's what we are trying to do here and not all of 'em are sellout full tim ehacks like me.SImon
What Revol said, get a proper job plus give up your moralising, self-sacrificing, missionaryeque attitude.
There's already a union at my work, why would I want to organise another one?
I don't have a moralising self sacrificing attitude. i was defending my self from internet warriors like yourself.
So what are you suggesting to organise? There's already a union - sweet so what are you organising instead. I seem to recall things you'd posted years ago when I first had a look on here. What have you practically built since then? Revolutionary workers groups, networks or whatever your into? We're trying to build something practical and if you've got nothing to add don't waste our time, there are plenty of online dating agencies elsewhere.
Simon
Peter,
I find your attack on Simon a bit pathetic. You don't answer his replies to your initial criticism of him as fucking over workers' struggles in the SSMP campaign. If you think the only way to organise is directly as a waged worker rather than a (paid) union organiser then why don't you just say so rather than making petty personal attacks on a person who seems to, in my opinion, be making the best efforts to foster a militant revolutionary unionism against all the odds. Your holier-than-thou attitude and blase assumptions don't do anyone any favours.
Malcolm
I don't thing it was his post that was the problem it's the fact he's talking about a netwrok of anarcho syndicalists etc whilst being a paid union hack, an issue that to Simono's credit he acknowledges himself. Though I do sympathise with Peter in his disdain forhis holier than thou 'I just want to help people' bullshit, if he wants to do that then he should piss off and do charity work not make platitudes about anarcho syndicalism.
The thing is, you've now turned a forum post that was meant to be about something specific into something completely different. been more useful if you had created a seperate forum topic and invited me to respond. even then i think it should be debated around the issues and topics - i'm sure most people wouldn't bothere defending themselves and not even bother discussing the topic.
And just for the record - "i just want to help people" means help them build their power and ability to do the job. Certainly you're not going to tell me that being on a picket line for most of the last few weeks is a charity job? Have you joined a charity so you can help your local locked out cleaners then?
I made the mistake of not reading your messages elsewhere to see your forum response style. It's not a criticism, but please take into the above and I'll happily discuss anything when I've got time as I'm too busy doing charity work to get rid of youth rates.
Simon
Sorry to go all quiet on this topic, my home connection has died so I've only had a bit of web time in libraries. I guess I do owe Simon an apology regarding SSMP, I knew the UNITE leadership had fucked it up but I didn't know his part in it. So, sorry Simon.
However having seen the union fuck up SSMP it seems a little naive to then get a job as a union bureaucrat.
Sure, thugarchist, but wouldn't winning be hollow without maintaining ideological purity? I mean, seriously, who really wants an increase in pay, benefits and job security while at the same time building workers power when they can be an ineffectual punk-ass on internet forums?
now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go masturbate to youtube videos of the CNT.
Tena koe all,
In an email to several anarchos, I proposed a communication network for Anarchists involved in and/or interested in organising in workplace struggles. in Aotearoa.
The purpose of this group is just to bring together anarchists/syndicalists/anarcho-syndicalists/revolutionary unionists/anti-state unionist etc who are interested in workplace struggle together and to facilitate communication when needed. There are a few of us and its intended to be loose etc.
Give us an email if interested, media@ndu.org.nz or make some comments here.
Simon