Americans more critical of capitalism?
Apr 10 2009 08:39
Of course such polls should be taken with a grain of salt, but:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/just_53_say_capitalism_better_than_socialism
Apr 10 2009 15:49
#2
Could be. Still it is interesting, even if people only thought of Keynesianism. However, my assumption is that the word "socialism" still conjures up images of Fidel Castro for many and that the word isn't used lightly in the states. The words "liberalism" or "leftism" are more commonly used to describe a certain degree of state regulation. While I do not believe most people understand exactly what socialism is, the capitalism-socialism dichotomy should still be clear to most people.
Apr 10 2009 15:50
#3
Some people refer to themselves as socialists because they believe in a public health-care system or support the right of workers to organize a labor union.to bargain for fair wages.
Apr 10 2009 15:56
#4
I think you beat me to it, I also posted this in the Economic Crisis thread in the news section.
I think it's significant insofar as the vast majority of Americans have been terrified of even the word "socialism" for years. But obviously they don't mean what we mean by "socialism."
Apr 10 2009 19:50
#5
Quote:
However, my assumption is that the word "socialism" still conjures up images of Fidel Castro for many and that the word isn't used lightly in the states.
Your Assumption is correct from my experience, which is why this poll doesn't seem realistic to me at all. The capitalist-socialist dichotomy, I don't think, is clear to most Americans I know. Most people I know, if asked what capitalism is and what capitalism assumes would probably not be able to put together a coherant answer other than "the system we live in" or something like that. Even in college, unless one is studying political science or economics(where they will get a very biased picture of capitalism just like anywhere else in the world I'm sure), they would probably not be able to answer this question, these things are rarely mentioned other than in the empty, superficial sense pictured in the media.
But I have a feeling this could also just have something to do with the financial crisis and people being disgruntled with the current system they consider to be capitalism.(Lately quite a few friends/family have been inquiring into anarchism/socialism I assume this stems from anxiety from the current financial crisis, and its much easier for me to try and talk with co-workers who mention it about it). I would assume the majority probably thought of socialism in the sense that woundedhobo mentioned.
Apr 11 2009 00:04
#6
the word 'socialism' is used as a cudgel over here: now, and no doubt for the rest of the current administration's term, every corporate shill who happens to be a member of the democratic party will be 'tarred' with this tag. in the last election some were predicting 'stalinist style agricultural collectivization' if obama were elected. so whatever other americans think socialism is, if 30-some percent are willing to express interest in it in the face of such vitriol, it's an interesting development.
Apr 11 2009 01:11
#7
Google trends suggests that more Americans are now interested enough in socialism to put it into the search engine.
Apr 11 2009 02:29
#8
petey wrote:
the word 'socialism' is used as a cudgel over here: now, and no doubt for the rest of the current administration's term, every corporate shill who happens to be a member of the democratic party will be 'tarred' with this tag. in the last election some were predicting 'stalinist style agricultural collectivization' if obama were elected. so whatever other americans think socialism is, if 30-some percent are willing to express interest in it in the face of such vitriol, it's an interesting development.
great point petey.
Apr 11 2009 03:39
#9
Yeah Petey that seems more realistic, if that link on google trends is correct the interest in socialism popped up around November and the elections which pretty much hits what you were saying right on the head.
Apr 11 2009 19:55
#10
The poll result does not say that
Quote:
30-some percent are willing to express interest in
socialism. It says that 53% prefer capitalism, 20% prefer socialism, while 27% aren't sure. The poll was of only 1000 people, so to generalize from that sample to all 300 million Americans is questionable, to say the least. Still, I don't disagree with saying that the result is of some interest. But the article also refers to results of a December poll that aren't quite so positive, e.g. 70% prefer a "free-market economy", while just 15% prefer a "government managed economy". The term "free-market economy" apparently has better associations in most Americans' minds than "capitalism". On the other hand, perhaps we can conclude that the 5% who claim to support "socialism" but not a "government managed economy" would be with us in supporting some form of anti-state socialism. That would certainly be promising. Of course, things are changing rapidly these days, and undoubtedly the results of the poll taken in December would be different today. Hopefully, some of the people who claim to prefer socialism are actually undertaking an active investigation into what capitalism really is and what socialism consequently would have to be. Without doubt, these results are influenced by the current economic crisis, and the current government's efforts to deal with it. Consequently, views are subject to change considerably, depending on how the situation develops.
Apr 15 2009 18:41
#11
waslax writes, as always, in comradely fashion. i'd point out that i wrote
petey wrote:
whatever other americans think socialism is
so while the '30-some' bit was typed in haste*, i stand by the rest, especially as i was concerned mostly with the use of the term 'socialism' in daily US political exchange. the poll numbers could revert to what they might have been, say, two years ago, but i also think that a large number of people will rethink their politics pretty fundamentally, and that this is a new and permanent cohort interested in something in our area.
*actually, for under-30s it's correct
Apr 12 2009 00:44
#12
waslax wrote:
The poll result does not say that
Quote:
30-some percent are willing to express interest insocialism. It says that 53% prefer capitalism, 20% prefer socialism, while 27% aren't sure. The poll was of only 1000 people, so to generalize from that sample to all 300 million Americans is questionable, to say the least. Still, I don't disagree with saying that the result is of some interest. But the article also refers to results of a December poll that aren't quite so positive, e.g. 70% prefer a "free-market economy", while just 15% prefer a "government managed economy". The term "free-market economy" apparently has better associations in most Americans' minds than "capitalism". On the other hand, perhaps we can conclude that the 5% who claim to support "socialism" but not a "government managed economy" would be with us in supporting some form of anti-state socialism. That would certainly be promising. Of course, things are changing rapidly these days, and undoubtedly the results of the poll taken in December would be different today. Hopefully, some of the people who claim to prefer socialism are actually undertaking an active investigation into what capitalism really is and what socialism consequently would have to be. Without doubt, these results are influenced by the current economic crisis, and the current government's efforts to deal with it. Consequently, views are subject to change considerably, depending on how the situation develops.
waslax-most scientific polls have similar sample sizes, and if they are implemented properly, they do tend to be an accurate reflection of public opinion. of course even highly reputable pollsters end up performing so-called push-polls, but rasmussen does fall into the well respected category.
Apr 13 2009 08:11
#13
In Canada most polls use a sample size of 1000 also, and yet Canada is roughly one tenth the size of the US, so that means Canadian polls are generally 10 times more accurate (rather, chance of error is 10 times less) than American ones. One thousand seems awfully small when you want to generalize to 300 million to me. I hadn't heard of Rasmussen before, but I take your word for it that they are reputable. I do hope that petey is right about this trend being permanent, but I'm less sure.
Apr 13 2009 09:31
#14
probably this text also tells something on the perception of "socialism": http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy_theory/the_paranoid_mentality/the_paranoid_style.html
Apr 13 2009 21:02
#15
waslax wrote:
In Canada most polls use a sample size of 1000 also, and yet Canada is roughly one tenth the size of the US, so that means Canadian polls are generally 10 times more accurate (rather, chance of error is 10 times less) than American ones. One thousand seems awfully small when you want to generalize to 300 million to me. I hadn't heard of Rasmussen before, but I take your word for it that they are reputable. I do hope that petey is right about this trend being permanent, but I'm less sure.
Actually accuracy does not scale directly with the ratio of sample size : population. You get rapidly diminishing returns as you increase the sample size. We can be 99% certain that the 53% figure is accurate to +/- 4.07% with 1000 people in the US population, and if Canadians had answered the same question the same way, the accuracy would still be exactly the same.
Results from http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
Apr 24 2009 09:01
#16
a critical article by a comrade from Solidarity (US) on this poll: http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/2139
Apr 25 2009 09:00
#17
I agree with Petey; the word "Socialism" has lost all definition in American Politics (other than "Someone I disagree with"). Those that have a half-assed understanding, tend to paint Marxists and Kim Jong il with the same shade of red.
the article says "The question posed by Rasmussen Reports did not define either capitalism or socialism" and during the last elections, it was my impression that many in the US were thinking, that state regulation or keynesianism is "socialism"