Anarchist Federation Pride bulletin... anyone willing to contribute?

What does 'non-theoretical' mean?

In all seriousness in the UK how does being gay affect you in class terms though, i mean does it effect you in terms of a job? does it make gay couples less likely to get council housing? If i were a gay guy out for a piss up on pride weekend, what would anarchists have to offer me specifically?

Oh come one cantdo, it's easier for better-off people being gay. homophobia does still exist, a lot, particularly among certain groups and it affects more working class people more - particularly with respect to job security, bullying, etc, Also of course there exists stuff like the middle class "gay community" based on consumption choices, which a lot of people aren't part of. and a lot more.

steven you just beat me to the exact points i was about to make. damn it.

of course, why wouldn't it be, it's the same as anything else

libcom in a nutshell

You think its harder to keep jobs if your gay? In all the jobs i've worked i'll always have had at least two gay or bi supervisors, and i dont just mean in brighton either before you say so. Homophobia exists like, and of course working class blokes feel excluded from some section of the ''gay community'' especially in london although whether they would want to be part of that community in the first place is questionable, but how are a handful of anarchists leafleting at pride going to change anything? At the ed of the day its the political equivalent of going to a festival and handing out leaflets telling people its too commercial because its sponsored by a beer brand or whatever, at the end of the day you kinda just come offf like a bunch of lefty killjoys. Sure i wish all the best of luck to people doing the bulletin and that but i can't help thinking its a little bit of waste of time, i mean i wandered through brighton pride last time and had a few drinks and the last thing i wanted to see was some morose lefties with a stall.

but you seem to be aproaching this from either viewing the gay 'community' as one big homogenous lump (i.e. 'you think its harder to keep jobs if your gay?') or talking about some problem of working class gay's unequal position in the 'gay community' - these seem to be two positions that only you have come up with, as i understand it the issue here is how being working class & gay affects your position in society as a whole, most working class gay's i know don't have any desire to establish themselves within a specific gay community, so the problem is not their relationship to that community, but of their relationship within, and problems that have to be confronted in, society in general and how they are likely to face problems as a working class gay person

If ya'll do this, it would be cool if it wasn't teribly britain-specific.

i can't see how an anarchist group based within the british isles preparing a (non-theoretical) leaflet to be handed out at pride events within the british isles which are often sponsored by british airways could in anyway be in danger of being britain specific, do you?

don't be so naive, gay people can suffer severe bullying at work and be forced out, regardless of your bi supervisors.

Of course, especially for people in factories, warehouses, construction, transport etc. Having gay bosses can make it even harder as if people see what they think is favouritism towards a gay employee they will start whispering about "gay mafias" and all that bullshit. It is absolutely wise in my experience for gay/lesbian agency workers to hide their sexuality, especially in workplaces with a sizable immigrant or black workforce.

The gay scene certainly does not reflect - or have an interest in these problems.

While there are plenty of employers who see the advantage in stopping homophobia at their workplaces, lots don't. I can conceive of quite a few working class workplaces where people wouldn't come out, not least those with a lot of Muslims or evangelical-type Christians.

There are about 40 people where I work, statistically someone ought to be gay, but no one is out. The last couple of gay guys working in the section were pshed out through the various TUPE transfers we've been through. Funnily enough no one who's been recruited is gay. I don't think there's necessarily any intent there, but I know the black gay guy who left a couple of years ago didn't talk about it with anyone else black. I don't think the picture is anywhere near as rosy as you're painting it Cantdo. I'm not saying my workplace is typical, but it doesn't mean it is atypical either.

It's worth mentioning that there is at least one person there prepared to be quite vocal in opposing homophobia (me), though others at work already refer to me as a "communist" and would probably expect it from me.

Regards,

Martin

So all these hardened proley gay types who will be getting pissed, having a good time at pride festival and all these gays fro ''immigrant communities'' who will definitely be there are going to see a leaflet handed about by some decidedly straight looking morose, unpullable and sober anarchists about how homophobia at work is like bad yeah and they're gonna do what exactly? Seriously give me a break, i'm more than happy to counter homophobia and other reactionary ideas at work, and have spent time doing it in the past, but it doesn't stop me thinking 'recruitment' based leafleting like this is a waste of time and effort. Meh i'll stop whinging though, and an admin can split the thread if they want like.

i find it interesting that you feel the need to add that adjective to the description, where did that come from?

as to the wider point , the original poster specifically referred to 'us queers' so not sure where your decidedly straight anarchist comes into it (although given as i understand it the issue is about how being working class & gay effects you within society i'd expect there would be an identity of interest with working class anarchists whatever their sexual persuasion

How was it successful? A serious question like, what good came out of it specifically?

it does show the rather sorry state of pro working class movements when the handing out of a leaflet is judged to be a thing marked down as a success - fair play for doing it in the first place though and i think it's a worthwhile cause but lets not get carried away

as for the wsm leaflet, it does appear they can't put a leaflet out on any topic without quoting bakunin

Well handing out a leaflet can be successful or unseucessful. I suppose the most unsucessful leafleting I've ever seen was when the SWP turned up at the Reclaim the Streets in Dublin Mayday 04 with a leaflet condemning the violence on the demo the day before saying:

The leaflet went down so badly they later said they never produced it. They had.

Sucessful leafleting is when a lot of people take the leaflet eagerly, tell you they like it, talk about it afterwards etc.

Hardly a major victory for the working class but leafleting can be 'sucessful'.

Ah its kind of like our slogan. Its on our banner, its at the top of our website, we put it on a lot of our leaflets.

PLEASE tell me that was a joke

Bit of self-education needed i think, here i'll start you off

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/

cheers george

how do you know they talk about it afterwards, are the leaflets bugged

Well I live in Dublin not cork. So I actually know nothing about this beyond somebody saying that the leaflet went down really well.

But you do sometimes get feedback on a leaflet you produce especially if you are distributing it at an event with a social afterwards. And when you are distro-ing at a week long series of events then there's a lot of chances to get feedback. http://www.corkpride.com/2005/events.html

Christ I hope they don't find out about the bugs.

is that all those gays ever think about!

I mean

I can assure you, nobody in the AF ever manages all four of those at the same time.

Handing out a well targetted bulletin at an event like Pride is a pretty good way to build up a sense of presence, if nothing else.

Many gay workers feel alienated in the context of Pride. Think about it, you like people of the same sex, that's it. If you like people of the same sex does that mean you like to dress up with feathers or ass-less pants? Does it mean you like crappy disco or schlager? No of course it doesn't. I believe homophobia should be adressed where we work and not in a context where the agenda is to make a thing about your sexuality.

Um...yea...when a homophobic landlord denies you and your partner an apartment or a trans-phobic boss fires you when you start transitioning...thats when class directly affects you a queer working class person.

Although I can only speak in terms of how being queer affects you on a class level in the US.

I'm going to be attending the SF Pride parade leafleting primarily about the Employment Non Discrimination Act. In the US it is still legal to discriminate against someone because of their gender or sexual identity. Contrary to popular belief, gay men make 23% to 30% less than straight men and lesbians make 20% less than straight women. Additionally there is a 35% unemployment rate within the transgendered community with 60% earning less than $15,300 per year. The Employment Non Discrimination Act will be a federal law prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation. We are still fighting for them to include gender identity.

If you are out in most parts of the US you face severe discrimination in your workplace and your community. I would assume the same occurs in Britain.

Things are moderately better in larger cities like New York and San Francisco. But don't be fooled by stereotypes of well to do gay men and lesbian housing speculators. Many of these large cities attract queers from all over the world hoping to live in a more accepting community. But most come here with very little money and no local community ties. Most still work several jobs, have a hard time paying rent and making ends meet. Trans people face an extra layer of discrimination even within the gay community. Traditionally working class gay and trans neighborhoods are constantly under threat of gentrification.

In terms of pride events alienating working class queers. I know some people resent the corporate nature and lack of politics involved with most pride marches. But most people I know enjoy pride events because its a time to kick back and enjoy being a completely queer space.

I think its good to flyer people about these issues but to also give people a way to get directly involved such as an on going campaign. Agitating people and then giving them nowhere to go with it isn't very useful in my opinion.