Anti-facism how important is it?

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tumble-weed
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Nov 22 2004 21:57
Anti-facism how important is it?

this probably seems like a really contentious topic but im purely interested in other peoples opinions.... i'm highly ignorant in this sunject as i live in a small village; and before anyone starts the name calling that seems to come with any discussion I'm queer so please dont accuse me of not knowing what its like to be opressed, hated etc; here goes.

Is anti facism somehting we really need to concentrate on in the UK at least? I mean obivously when the BNP are about we've gotta get down there and break up any kidn of rally they mite try and make sure that anti-BNP stuff is still in the air; but people dont REALLY pay any attention to them do they? I realise now theyre getting a new image that theyre slightly more dangerous but its still not real concern is it? THe reason im talkinfg about this is that the conference we stormed at ESF was all about anti facism, evidently one of the most important ones, but i would have thought there are many more pressing issues?

This isnt a topic i feel paticuarly strongly about im just curious i guess.

ive whittered on enough now.

WeTheYouth
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Nov 22 2004 22:22

Its very important. Its not wether the BNP can get into local councils or in parliment, its the lies they spread in our communities, it is how they divide the workers on imaginary differences, which lead to confrontation and working class attacking working class. We have saw the damage fascism has on societies, we have saw the human cost, are we willing to let the mouthpieces of these atrocities run rampant un apposed in society and let it happen again. I think not.

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Nov 23 2004 19:06

But these days the main spreaders of racism and division are not the BNP, its the labour/Tory/Liberal controlled local governments. This is because the local and national rich aren't scared enough to turn to the fascists, the mainstream parties are keeping us down OK so far.

nastyned
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Joined: 30-09-03
Nov 23 2004 20:18

I'm a bit in two minds on this one. The labour government is currently doing things the fascists can only dream of!

But on the other hand we can have immediate results in anti-fascist activities. I guess it's something that has to be done but it shouldn't be our main focus.

Kalashnikov_Blues
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Nov 24 2004 19:49

well aside from the fact that fascists dont allow you to consume the really yummy double chocolate chip cookies I am currently indulging in, it took me a while to conclude that the were evil.

But now, I am pretty sure that they are.

I am still workin on this stupid sticker war with my local NF chapter. I can't wait to catch them putting the fuckin stickers up... I drool at the mere thought of it.

Stupid fuckwits.

Now they are banging up C18 scribbles... Anyway, anyone interested in doing a blanket attack in West London, is welcome. I have to admit to getting sick and tired of my one man pointless sticker war.

Though frighteningly (or fortunatly) I was informed today that in the 70's the NF used to stick double sided razors under the stickers to "deter" you from scraping them off with your fingernails...

ack! I have been curling my toes for the past few hours now.

Though its a good idea... black bloc

3rdseason
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Nov 24 2004 19:56
Kalashnikov_Blues wrote:
in the 70's the NF used to stick double sided razors under the stickers to "deter" you from scraping them off with your fingernails...

dark!!

I think anti-fascism is important but not majorly so. By that I mean I agree that only a tiny minority of the racism inherent in society comes from the BNP and co.

There was a really good thread about this a while ago. I might search for it.

nuclearcivvy
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Nov 25 2004 00:26

Recently someone mentioned an extreme right push in the Glasgow area. There's on on here too. Litreature mainly, but it's working. Attitudes ar being poisoned.

I got active with ant-apartheid in the 80's. It's one of those issues that mobilises the Young in either political direction.

IT'S IMPORTANT. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN CLASS!

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gav
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Nov 25 2004 00:39
nuclearcivvy wrote:
Recently someone mentioned an extreme right push in the Glasgow area. There's on on here too. Litreature mainly, but it's working. Attitudes ar being poisoned.

I got active with ant-apartheid in the 80's. It's one of those issues that mobilises the Young in either political direction.

IT'S IMPORTANT. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN CLASS!

what is more important than class? anti-apartheid? i would guess you are talking about racism, but who knows.

fascism is a changing thing, not all fascists are racists, etc, one consist thing though is that they work very much against the interests of the working class, hence i dont like them.

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Jacques Roux
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Nov 25 2004 11:33
nuclearcivvy wrote:
Recently someone mentioned an extreme right push in the Glasgow area. There's on on here too. Litreature mainly, but it's working. Attitudes ar being poisoned.

I got active with ant-apartheid in the 80's. It's one of those issues that mobilises the Young in either political direction.

IT'S IMPORTANT. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN CLASS!

I really dont think it is....

redyred
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Nov 25 2004 15:28

It's important because it's about class. So ner.

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Nov 25 2004 17:29
Kalashnikov_Blues wrote:
I was informed today that in the 70's the NF used to stick double sided razors under the stickers to "deter" you from scraping them off with your fingernails...

I can't believe this one. Imagine how much it would cost to do this; and there would be an obvious metal bulge underneath.,

redyred
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Nov 25 2004 18:07
Lazlo_Woodbine wrote:
Kalashnikov_Blues wrote:
I was informed today that in the 70's the NF used to stick double sided razors under the stickers to "deter" you from scraping them off with your fingernails...

I can't believe this one. Imagine how much it would cost to do this; and there would be an obvious metal bulge underneath.,

Yeah it happened, still does. Not under literally ever sticker, mainly in places where they'd most expect them to be taken off, for example an old socialist friend of mine's car got done like that a few years ago.

scuzzmonkey
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Joined: 27-11-04
Nov 27 2004 21:23
nuclearcivvy wrote:
.

I got active with ant-apartheid in the 80's. It's one of those issues that mobilises the Young in either political direction.

IT'S IMPORTANT. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN CLASS!

Not sure if anybody has said this yet, and i proberly gonna get smoked for this but, this morning (27/11/04) or mabye last night (26/11/04) the English cricket team arrived in Zim. for a 'contraversal' tour. The paperazi are getting pissed about this because of Mugarby. But when the England Cricket team went and had a tour in South Africa when the apartheid was in existance and when Nelson Mandella was in prison, they didnt give a shit.

In short this is proof that this country is as rasist as anyother and that everyone going after the BNP (even though i dont agree with them) is pointless, because the BNP are just publising the already rasict nature of this country, something that will never go away.

redyred
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Nov 27 2004 23:46
scuzzmonkey wrote:
nuclearcivvy wrote:
.

I got active with ant-apartheid in the 80's. It's one of those issues that mobilises the Young in either political direction.

IT'S IMPORTANT. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN CLASS!

Not sure if anybody has said this yet, and i proberly gonna get smoked for this but, this morning (27/11/04) or mabye last night (26/11/04) the English cricket team arrived in Zim. for a 'contraversal' tour. The paperazi are getting pissed about this because of Mugarby. But when the England Cricket team went and had a tour in South Africa when the apartheid was in existance and when Nelson Mandella was in prison, they didnt give a shit.

In short this is proof that this country is as rasist as anyother and that everyone going after the BNP (even though i dont agree with them) is pointless, because the BNP are just publising the already rasict nature of this country, something that will never go away.

Go away.

scuzzmonkey
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Nov 28 2004 11:39

well its true

redyred
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Nov 28 2004 12:55

No, it's bullshit. For a start how can a country be inherently racist? Yes there are heavily racist elements in the capitalist media - that says more about capitalism than it does about British people. Racism is not "something that will never go away" - it appeared and grew up with capitalism and is an integral part of capitalist society, so it can be eradicated by defeating capitalism.

So basically scuzmonkey, since coming to these boards you've said nazism was ok apart from the racism, it's pointless to fight against the BNP because they're merely reflecting society and, best of all, organised a sit down protest against chavs. Fantastic. You moron.

Anarchoneilist
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Dec 18 2004 19:46

Racism was invented by the colonial powers as an excuse to rape the third world. What is inherent is a certain anmount of xenophiobia.

At the end of the day, though, the very existence of the state does encourage racism: You define yourself as a citizen with the right to vote etc.

Why do you have the right to vote?"Because white people are indigenous to this country." But what about the Normans etc? "Well, they where all white and they forced their way in."

Obviously if you go round (as an organisation) telling people this you'll just alienate people at best and encourage the Andy Capp brigade (right-wing libertarians) at worst. Anti-fascists need to take a more moderate stance generally without alienating/patrobnising the kind of people who would consider voting Nazi (arguably).By all means sticker etc but you need to get through to people.

AyatollahKhomeni
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Joined: 31-12-04
Dec 31 2004 23:19

Anti-Fascism is important in the sense that we need to be organised and more focused when it comes to coming out on a anti-fascist action. Also in Britain today there is now so anti-capitalist and capitalist groups that all play then race card but when it comes to the crunch none of there groups are willing to unite under the banned of "Anti-Facism". Therefore as Activists we still need to unite and fight against the presence of the B.N.P were ever they are. However we must fight not only on unofficial basis but also on a official basis as no organisation in Britain be they anti-capitalist or capitalist is willing to fight against the hardcore circle in the B.N.P.

redyred
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Jan 1 2005 19:10
AyatollahKhomeni wrote:
Anti-Fascism is important in the sense that we need to be organised and more focused when it comes to coming out on a anti-fascist action. Also in Britain today there is now so anti-capitalist and capitalist groups that all play then race card but when it comes to the crunch none of there groups are willing to unite under the banned of "Anti-Facism". Therefore as Activists we still need to unite and fight against the presence of the B.N.P were ever they are. However we must fight not only on unofficial basis but also on a official basis as no organisation in Britain be they anti-capitalist or capitalist is willing to fight against the hardcore circle in the B.N.P.

Yes, and dismissing everyone on here as a bunch of white middle class Zapatista fetishists is really a good way to build unity isn't it?

Nightjar
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Joined: 3-10-04
Jan 1 2005 21:02

I'm not going to say Anti-fascism is THE issue in Britain, but it's pretty damn close. Fascism weakens and divides the working class and one of the main jobs of the left/anarchist/socialist/communist groups is to combat fascism. We have to start from where the w/c is, not from where we wish them to be. We have to challange and beat fascist arguements by providing practical alternatives to the BNP in the here and now. Arguements like 'revolution is the answer' just won't wash with people.

Anarchoneilist
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Jan 2 2005 21:30

What gets my goat is "people on the right" accusing the left of hatred towards the rich while when we complain about the rightwing press they cry "freedom of speech".

I am someone who is invloved in anti-fash action and desperate to give wc people some kind of alternative-they are not interested in either some one telling them it'll get worse if the BNP got in because things are bad now (or they percieve them to be) or someone who they'd percieve to be some nancy middle class liberal, which is why,unfortunately(?), the Greens don't appeal to many people.

And yes I am also annoyed with the Trot/Anarchist Revolutionary brigade.

(Of cource things aren't brilliant otherwise we wouldn't be here in cyberspace discuss them and wc people are smart enough to know that things can be better)

Caiman del Barrio
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Jan 3 2005 01:16

I'd say that anti-fascism starts becoming an important issue when the BNP start standing for office in your area. Until then, it's main benefit is a morale-booster.

Anarchoneilist
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Jan 7 2005 16:53

'cept AFA shoudn't soley be restricted to BNP activity. A war on the underclass is inevitable unless we get out there. With an end to poverty the Nazis will be irrelevant.