The attack on Incapacity benefit
Feb 15 2006 12:17
While it is true that the state is now acting in the interest of capital, this was not always the case. What we have here is remnants of the welfare state being attacked, again, and state form is being changed more in line with neo-Liberalism (they are encouraging casualisation by enlarging the labour market, those 'forced' to take low paid and insecure work).
Therefore, it is the job of all to oppose these cuts as it may affect you too one day, but those directly concerned should play a part. However, you may know that these people differ widely and are not in organisations at present, so the groups that are doing stuff need to network, coordinate actions, and quickly.
Also, a significant amount of people (inc. those who jumped from JSA to incapacity) are expressing their autonomy from capital, and as such it should be encouraged. Many in the informal economy are DIY types who do not rely on 'employers' - official or not. Instead, they are freetraders.
The NE NUM has done loads of cases, helping to get those made redundant in Easington more money (the UK IB hotspot), thus the IB changes are continuing the attack on class consciousness and should be resisted.
Feb 15 2006 12:21
#2
gangster wrote:
While it is true that the state is now acting in the interest of capital, this was not always the case.
Ha Ha Ha! 
Feb 15 2006 12:28
#3
BB wrote:
gangster wrote:
While it is true that the state is now acting in the interest of capital, this was not always the case.Ha Ha Ha!
Pedant, so I should have added 'solely'. Perhaps you should try constructive criticism next time rather than inane drbbling grins...
Feb 15 2006 12:59
#4
Hi
The welfare state is a fundamentally capitalist construction. In order to increase working class economic security we need to move beyond defending it and propose a genuine advance. A universal citizen’s income, a house building programme, energy self sufficiency and industrial regeneration to bring the costs of living under control.
Love
LR
Feb 15 2006 13:32
#5
gangster wrote:
BB wrote:
gangster wrote:
While it is true that the state is now acting in the interest of capital, this was not always the case.Ha Ha Ha!
That's what the edit buttons for, add it where you like..., Monkey!
gangster wrote:
Perhaps you should try constructive criticism next time rather than inane drbbling grins...
Perhaps you should use a spell checker?
Feb 15 2006 13:58
#6
Hi
Quote:
inane drbbling grins...
I find these can help speed up claims for incapacity benefit.
Is it OK to kill DWP Snoopers? I think so.
Love
LR
Feb 15 2006 17:13
#7
its all fine and dandy applying for icb but when the people are faced with going to see a dwp doctor for the med exam for icb and are then told they didnt get enough points so basically the dwp then says our doctor says your not ill , you didnt get enough points so fuck off we aint paying you, the problem there is a huge majority of people trying to claim icb are suffering from the modern social illness.... depression and stress and the dwp doctor is looking for physical illness plus the fact he is probably on a bonus for failing people. The welfare rights dept at our CAB is basically snowed under with icb and dla appeals we have about about a 3 month backlog, its gonna get a lot worse too if the gvmnt have their way.
Feb 15 2006 17:48
#8
Lets not forget either the incompatence of the people like the DWPs/thickits who work for the benefits agencys,there reputation for f***g things up as seen below will only get worse:
A report for the DWP on the new Pathways to Work pilot paints a picture of reluctant, fearful, badly trained, unpopular and ill-resourced staff dreading the introduction of targets and working in an environment which regularly breaches claimants' rights under the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA). Problems include Personal Advisors (PAs):
being 'pushed into' the job and treated with hostility by their colleagues;
considering some groups of clients to be 'wasters' and being afraid of clients with mental health conditions;
not understanding the very basics of their job, such as which forms to fill out, how to use specialist software or how to refer people on;
taking guesses about claimant's health conditions and feeling obliged to work with claimants they consider seriously ill;
having no private interview rooms for clients, or only inaccessible ones, in breach of the DDA.
Another recent incident:
Hamish Meldrum, chairman of the GPs' committee, said: "That proposal would have seriously undermined the relationship between patients and their doctors." Macmillan Cancer Relief feared "workfare-style compulsion" for sick and disabled people, saying it had already had to intervene to stop chemotherapy patients and those with a terminal diagnosis being called to work interviews.
Feb 15 2006 18:52
#9
andycrap wrote:
Lets not forget either the incompatence of the people like the DWPs/thickits who work for the benefits agencys,there reputation for f***g things up as seen below will only get worse:A report for the DWP on the new Pathways to Work pilot paints a picture of reluctant, fearful, badly trained, unpopular and ill-resourced staff dreading the introduction of targets and working in an environment which regularly breaches claimants' rights under the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA). Problems include Personal Advisors (PAs):
being 'pushed into' the job and treated with hostility by their colleagues;
considering some groups of clients to be 'wasters' and being afraid of clients with mental health conditions;
not understanding the very basics of their job, such as which forms to fill out, how to use specialist software or how to refer people on;
taking guesses about claimant's health conditions and feeling obliged to work with claimants they consider seriously ill;
having no private interview rooms for clients, or only inaccessible ones, in breach of the DDA.
Another recent incident:
Hamish Meldrum, chairman of the GPs' committee, said: "That proposal would have seriously undermined the relationship between patients and their doctors." Macmillan Cancer Relief feared "workfare-style compulsion" for sick and disabled people, saying it had already had to intervene to stop chemotherapy patients and those with a terminal diagnosis being called to work interviews.
Good work Mr Crapp, could you give me the reference for the DWP report you talked about please?
Feb 15 2006 18:54
#10
The Porkadian wrote:
its all fine and dandy applying for icb but when the people are faced with going to see a dwp doctor for the med exam for icb and are then told they didnt get enough points so basically the dwp then says our doctor says your not ill , you didnt get enough points so fuck off we aint paying you, the problem there is a huge majority of people trying to claim icb are suffering from the modern social illness.... depression and stress and the dwp doctor is looking for physical illness plus the fact he is probably on a bonus for failing people. The welfare rights dept at our CAB is basically snowed under with icb and dla appeals we have about about a 3 month backlog, its gonna get a lot worse too if the gvmnt have their way.
I hear you, but I would recommend that those seeing a DWP doctor tell them that they are seeing a psychiatrist whether they are or not, as a guy I know got through the test on that basis. I would be grateful to hear other experiences, test cases, information we can spread too.
Feb 15 2006 20:10
#11
Couldnt find it again mr gangster as i done a quick google.....The Dreaded All Works Test....
.....Heres some advice on the point system they use,yeh Gangster is right about seeing a Psychiatrist though be careful as they may check up.A whooping 4 points (dependant on your disability),bowle problems,dribbling a lot in the water works dept (tip always go to the work test with soiled pants,a point at least as no one wants to work next to some one smelling of pe pe),clostraphobia in crowds 1 point,drinking problem beer in the morning etc occasional acid trip,1 point,do not stare in the eyes of the GP,stutter a lot at key words another little tit bit do not go clean shaving even bettr if your female,i find a old shirt with t-bag stains works wonders especially around the arm pits.. should get a point here...look miserable,the rest is a guessing game...my mate went once in a pair of glasses with one lense missing.
you could always cut your arm off or both and you will be guaranteed that dream benefit we all aim for DLA.
Feb 16 2006 01:12
#12
you have to be careful with dla sometimes if you think youve had the wrong award and appeal it the bastards take it all away and even dla is becoming more difficult to get now
Feb 16 2006 01:16
#13
andycrap wrote:
Lets not forget either the incompatence of the people like the DWPs/thickits who work for the benefits agencys,there reputation for f***g things up as seen below will only get worse
So I take it your argument here is "blame the workers"?
Feb 16 2006 09:16
#14
John. wrote:
andycrap wrote:
Lets not forget either the incompatence of the people like the DWPs/thickits who work for the benefits agencys,there reputation for f***g things up as seen below will only get worseSo I take it your argument here is "blame the workers"?
Its not really an argument its a well known fact especially in hackneys history that staff at the benefit agencys are incompatent & i am pointing out with the new changes to IB things will get worse.
LR wrote:
Is it OK to kill DWP Snoopers? I think so.
Love
LR
debateable i think also...... 
Feb 16 2006 10:36
#15
andycrap wrote:
Its not really an argument its a well known fact especially in hackneys history that staff at the benefit agencys are incompatent
According to whom?
If you got paid the shit Hackney council workers got paid, would you work hard?
If the training and support they receive adequate?
Does there even exist a framework where they could do their jobs properly? (i.e. adequate funding and organisational structure)
Did you even think about that before coming out with the daily mail tory rubbish blaming the workers?
Feb 16 2006 10:41
#16
having just nearly cringed up my breakfast on the way to work thanks to the hilarious Class War stickers telling me to buy cigs from the black market I can only assume that no one in class war ever engages their brain before doing anything.
Feb 16 2006 10:49
#17
revol68 wrote:
I can only assume that no one in class war ever engages their brain before doing anything.
Come on that's completely unfair.
Feb 16 2006 10:55
#18
John. wrote:
revol68 wrote:
I can only assume that no one in class war ever engages their brain before doing anything.Come on that's completely unfair.
really?
I mean they can't develop a position on national liberation but they can tell us to buy ciggies from the black market.
Cos we all know the black market is a sphere of working class liberation, fluffy bunnies and nice friendly gangsters who only "do their own."
Class War are a fucking joke, they can't even effectively counter Gangster nevermind confront capital.
Feb 16 2006 11:53
#19
I see again revol is attacking CWar (key pads dont fight back),got a grudge or something revol?
Whos attacking the workers?the people working in the benefits agency are incompatent and useless (IT net sacked),
Feb 16 2006 11:57
#20
well I see you've got the interpretative faculties to realise i was having a go at class war.
Since keypads don't fight back how about you offer some defence of what can only be described as a once funny joke that which has forgotten the punch line.
So come on lets hear why we should give our money to ciggie smugglers like loyalist and republican paramilitaries?
Feb 16 2006 12:05
#21
Revol you are trolling once again...i come on these boards as an individual not representing CW or getting CWs permission to write stuff...each time you seem to attack CW,why?have you a grudge?
Feb 16 2006 12:08
#22
andycrap wrote:
Revol you are trolling once again...i come on these boards as an individual not representing CW or getting CWs permission to write stuff...each time you seem to attack CW,why?have you a grudge?
so you come on here and spit out reactionary divisive shit about the "lazy workers" being the problem and don't expect to get grief, and the reason class war get it is cause your stupidity is typical of a group who put up stickers celebrating the black market.
Feb 16 2006 12:21
#23
apologies for interrupting the discussion on CW.
I'm on IS with disability premium. the local jobcentre have sent me a letter inviting me to an interview (date and time supplied) to discuss various stuff with a friendly adviser about various incentives to get me working for a pittance etc.
anyone have any experience of these interviews? are they compulsory or voluntary?
ta
Feb 16 2006 12:21
#24
revol68 wrote:
andycrap wrote:
Revol you are trolling once again...i come on these boards as an individual not representing CW or getting CWs permission to write stuff...each time you seem to attack CW,why?have you a grudge?so you come on here and spit out reactionary divisive shit about the "lazy workers" being the problem and don't expect to get grief, and the reason class war get it is cause your stupidity is typical of a group who put up stickers celebrating the black market.
Lazy workers...you just made that one up revol,expect to get grief from some pratt who rants on about CW stickers that have nothing to do with the thread and quite happy in slagging of a group that you know f**k all about..my stupidity...do you think you are something revol on these boards,some sort of big cheese,insult me not CW...
with the changes comeing in about IB and with the reputation of hackney benefit staff which hasnt seen much changes since IT net where sacked a year ago for f***g everything up alot of paople are going to get shafted by the incompatence of the staff who seem to workat these places....
I dont see why people who are intitled to claim benefits having to go threw hell at the DWP & HB offices cos the people who work there dont get paid alot and dont give a shit... christ you would think its there own money there paying out
John wrote:
According to whom?
the failure of past privatisation has left its mark. Much of the present crisis could have been avoided had the outsourcing of social security benefits to a company called ITNET been managed properly or not taken place at all. The contract began in 1997 and by the time it was brought back in house four years later, it had cost the people of Hackney ?36 million. Elderly people were left paying their rent out of their winter fuel money in fear of eviction, as benefit claims remained unprocessed. The Benefit Fraud Inspectorate stated in a report on ITNET that an estimated 64,112 outstanding items relating to 33,347 claims were left undone.
Distraught residents desperately turned to the Hackney Law Centre and Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) for help. According to the director of Hackney CAB, Sola Ayobade, both organisations felt the impact of ITNET's failure: "You can't even think about how it was. It was the evictions. Then the landlords would come in and say look we're about to lose our properties because we can't get our rent on the tenants we've got in. So we had all parties coming in, it was quite horrendous." In the cruellest irony, funding for both Hackney Law Centre and the CAB has been cut because of the debt created by ITNET's failure.
Ergh accourding to the people who go threw claiming benefits and are constanty fighting for there money they are intitled too....
Feb 16 2006 16:44
#25
Hi
Quote:
So I take it your argument here is "blame the workers"?
Ho ho. I can tell you benefits workers can be downright obstructive, it’s not a matter of “training”, it’s pure bloody mindedness.
Quote:
Did you even think about that before coming out with the daily mail tory rubbish blaming the workers?
So I take it your argument here is "blame the readers"? Are they workers too? I think so. Maybe it’s best to “blame the journalists”. The whole system only works because we daily choose to capitulate to it rather than implement a better one.
revol68 wrote:
I can only assume that no one in class war ever engages their brain before doing anything.
To be fair they also have their bad points.
MalFunction wrote:
anyone have any experience of these interviews? are they compulsory or voluntary?
I’ve just been on a C.A.B training course. If you can score 10 points on a scale of mental deficiency you may be able to keep your disability premium. The back of the CPAG Guide tells you how, there’ll be a copy at your local C.A.B. It’s quite funny, I’m going to see if I can find the info on the net and post it.
Love
LR
Feb 16 2006 16:51
#26
Hi
Here it is you sexy mentals. Remember you need to score 10 points. I tell you, most of us seem to qualify for this…
http://www.rethink.org/information/living/benefits5.html
15. Completion of tasks
a) Cannot answer the telephone and reliably take a message. 2 points
b) Often sits for hours doing nothing. 2 points
c) Cannot concentrate to read a magazine article or follow a radio or television programme. 1 point
d) Cannot use a telephone book or other directory to find a number. 1 point
e) Mental condition prevents him from undertaking leisure activities previously enjoyed. 1 point
f) Overlooks or forgets the risk posed by domestic appliances or other common hazards due to poor concentration. 1 point
g) Agitation, confusion or forgetfulness has resulted in potentially dangerous accidents in the last 3 months. 1 point
h) Concentration can only be sustained by prompting. 1 point
16. Daily living
a) Needs encouragement to get up and dress. 2 points
b) Needs alcohol before midday. 2 points
c) Is frequently distressed at some time of the day due to fluctuation of mood. 1 point
d) Does not care about his appearance and living condition. 1 point
e) Sleep problems interfere with his daytime activities. 1 point
17. Coping with pressure
a) Mental stress was a factor in making him stop work. 2 points
b) Frequently feel scared or panicky for no obvious reason. 2 points
c) Avoids carrying out routine activities because he is convinced they will prove too tiring or stressful. 1 point
d) Is unable to cope with changes in daily living. 1 point
e) Frequently finds there are so many things to do that he gives up because of fatigue, apathy or disinterest. 1 point
f) Is scared or anxious that work would bring back or worsen his illness. 1 point
18. Interaction with other people
a) Cannot look after himself without help from others. 2 points
b) Gets upset by ordinary events and it results in disruptive behavioural problems. 2 points
c) Mental problems impair ability to communicate with other people. 2 points
d) Gets irritated by things that would not have bothered him before he became ill. 1 point
e) Prefers to be left alone for 6 hours or more each day. 1 point
f) Is too frightened to go out alone. 1 point
"Needs alcohol before midday", "Gets upset by ordinary events and it results in disruptive behavioural problems". It reads like CW's membership criteria. (joke).
Love
LR
Feb 16 2006 16:54
#27
andycrap wrote:
Whos attacking the workers?the people working in the benefits agency are incompatent and useless (IT net sacked),
Who's attacking the workers? You - repeatedly. Although I'm finding it a bit hard to see exactly what you're saying
This looks like a quote from somewhere, right?:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Its not really an argument its a well known fact especially in hackneys history that staff at the benefit agencys are incompatentJohn wrote:
According to whom?
the failure of past privatisation has left its mark. Much of the present crisis could have been avoided had the outsourcing of social security benefits to a company called ITNET been managed properly or not taken place at all. The contract began in 1997 and by the time it was brought back in house four years later, it had cost the people of Hackney ?36 million. Elderly people were left paying their rent out of their winter fuel money in fear of eviction, as benefit claims remained unprocessed. The Benefit Fraud Inspectorate stated in a report on ITNET that an estimated 64,112 outstanding items relating to 33,347 claims were left undone.
Distraught residents desperately turned to the Hackney Law Centre and Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) for help. According to the director of Hackney CAB, Sola Ayobade, both organisations felt the impact of ITNET's failure: "You can't even think about how it was. It was the evictions. Then the landlords would come in and say look we're about to lose our properties because we can't get our rent on the tenants we've got in. So we had all parties coming in, it was quite horrendous." In the cruellest irony, funding for both Hackney Law Centre and the CAB has been cut because of the debt created by ITNET's failure.
Ergh accourding to the people who go threw claiming benefits and are constanty fighting for there money they are intitled too....
None of that report you quote slags off the workers saying they're incompetant or useless - that's you, Mr. Class War Working Class Anarchist saying that. Yup, it's probably nothing to do with under-funding, bureaucracy, privatisation, or capitalism. No it's the useless workers' fault.
Feb 16 2006 16:55
#28
Hi
John. why do you never read my excellent posts?
Love
LR
Feb 16 2006 16:55
#29
Lazy Riser wrote:
HiHere it is you sexy mentals. Remember you need to score 10 points. I tell you, most of us seem to qualify for this…
Wow
That deserves a thread of its own, with a poll for people to say how many points they get!
Feb 16 2006 17:18
#30
In my dealings with the benefit office trying to sort peoples claims out, they are pretty useless they know next to nothing about who is entitled to what theyre main reasons to exist is to find reasons not to give people any benefits, my manager at work is an ex benefits manager and she admits it herself that benefits workers are not encouraged to tell people what extras they could be entitled too, that job seems to have been passed onto welfare rights workers
For reference:
:> Labour's cruellest cut - Incapacity benefits in detail
:> Case study: Mining communities, unemployment and incapacity benefits