I love the charges being launched against the british posters that they dont have a culture, what the fuck are these posters doing dancing at the crossroads?
It's true, if only we had leprechauns we'd support nationalism too. 
Far be it from me to take sides in this time-honoured debate between loyalists and republicans, but...
'Romanian gypsies beware beware. Loyalist C18 are coming to beat you like a baiting bear'
Text message sent by Combat 18 in Northern Ireland last week Belfast was shocked by last week's assaults on Roma families. But in 'the Village', the loyalist enclave where anti-Romanian sentiment is strongest, even those who condemn the violence are bitterly opposed to immigration.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/race-northern-ireland-romanian-gypsies
Far be it from me to take sides in this time-honoured debate between loyalists and republicans, but...'Romanian gypsies beware beware. Loyalist C18 are coming to beat you like a baiting bear'
Text message sent by Combat 18 in Northern Ireland last week Belfast was shocked by last week's assaults on Roma families. But in 'the Village', the loyalist enclave where anti-Romanian sentiment is strongest, even those who condemn the violence are bitterly opposed to immigration.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/race-northern-ireland-romanian-gypsies
I don't think there is much doubt of the loyalist/protestant backgrounds of the people involved in forcing out the Romanian families but then there was no doubt about the republican/protestant backgrounds of those who forced Lithuanians out of the Falls Rd.
As for Loyalist C18, well C18 don't actually exist and this is just a name doing the rounds. It should hardly surprise anyone that British Nationalist organisations would seek to align themselves with loyalism whilst not exactly having much appeal within Republican areas were Union Jack waving isn't exactly popular. That doesn't mean there aren't racist or pseudo fascist sentiments amongst people from republican backgrounds, simply that there are no explicitly fascist groups to orchestrate on or articulate this.
I don't think there is much doubt of the loyalist/protestant backgrounds of the people involved in forcing out the Romanian families but then there was no doubt about the republican/protestant backgrounds of those who forced Lithuanians out of the Falls Rd.
Take it you mean republican/catholic here...theres no need to confuse the issue any further!
oh shit aye.
My own personal confusion must have kicked in there.
so is this Loyalist C18 the protestant version of RIRA then? Are these recent attacks a consequence of the bigger loyalist groups moving towards demilitarization, just like the RIRA attacks were a reaction to the perceived softness of the old guard republican groups?
If so, then this is not just racism, but racism getting bound up with the very unique and difficult political situation of Northern Ireland.
so is this Loyalist C18 the protestant version of RIRA then? Are these recent attacks a consequence of the bigger loyalist groups moving towards demilitarization, just like the RIRA attacks were a reaction to the perceived softness of the old guard republican groups?
If so, then this is not just racism, but racism getting bound up with the very unique and difficult political situation of Northern Ireland.
there is no loyalist C18, there is no C18 ffs, it's simply people using the name C18 and prefixing it with the description loyalist, y'know like the revolutionary CNT or whatever.
It's nothing like the RIRA, it's not a loyalist splinter group pissed off at demilitarisation.
How did you come up with this stuff?
that Guardian article quotes an "ex-UDA member" who argues that this made-up C18 is a reaction to Loyalist demilitarization, and that C18 and BPP type groups will take advantage of this situation to up their profile.
I'm not convinced that's the case, but that's why I'm fucking asking.
For all its many faults republicanism has always being more open to those from other parts for the world
I never make excuses for Republicanism.
Hmmmm.
Really, although these current attacks are obviously coming from a 'loyalist' area, is it helpful to shift the focus from the attacks themselves to an argument about which one of the two dead-end traditions that dominate northern Irish society has the 'better' track record on race relations?
Yes there are people in these communities who oppose racism but may still consider themselves Loyalists. At some point we might even have to engage with them 
Have a look at the threads on Stormfront about these attacks...southern Republicans congratulating northern Loyalists over this shit.
some dude has turned himself into the cops
story
Hes not a 'dude' hes a fucking scumbag subhuman. I need a shower.
I got told off this week by an editor for prefixing a fascists name with "Mr" - "weelers, he isnt a mister, he is racist scum", I was told.
Lol you got to learn to dehumanise them weeler. I thought they would have taught u that on day one. 
Really, although these current attacks are obviously coming from a 'loyalist' area, is it helpful to shift the focus from the attacks themselves to an argument about which one of the two dead-end traditions that dominate northern Irish society has the 'better' track record on race relations?
Fair point. However, as long as people are clutching at straws for reasons for apparent differences in attitudes between loyalist and republican milieux, then this debate will rumble on.
Have a look at the threads on Stormfront about these attacks...southern Republicans congratulating northern Loyalists over this shit.
I seem to remember reading something in one of the broadsheets (Independent?Guardian?) a few years ago, to the effect that the BNP didn't want to be seen to be overly supportive of Ulster loyalism because it didn't want to alienate its Roman Catholic membership. I think there were even NFers who supported the IRA because they were nationalists. Clerical nationalism would also translate to the Church's support for Franco's Spain (and Irish Catholic volunteers for Franco's side in the Civil War).
Then again, I was struck by a TV documentary a while back, on Republican and Loyalist prisoners, by what the contents of their respective libraries and murals revealed. While there was the predictable left nationalism and anti-imperialism in the Republican side (compatible with fascism), nevertheless, there was a nod to an idea of global human solidarity in the range of books and mural imagery, however attenuated. From what I saw of the Loyalist stuff, I couldn't but conclude that these prisoners were largely sociopathic scum, with a strong leaning to outright Nazism.
Quote:
Really, although these current attacks are obviously coming from a 'loyalist' area, is it helpful to shift the focus from the attacks themselves to an argument about which one of the two dead-end traditions that dominate northern Irish society has the 'better' track record on race relations?Fair point. However, as long as people are clutching at straws for reasons for apparent differences in attitudes between loyalist and republican milieux, then this debate will rumble on.
Quote:
Have a look at the threads on Stormfront about these attacks...southern Republicans congratulating northern Loyalists over this shit.I seem to remember reading something in one of the broadsheets (Independent?Guardian?) a few years ago, to the effect that the BNP didn't want to be seen to be overly supportive of Ulster loyalism because it didn't want to alienate its Roman Catholic membership. I think there were even NFers who supported the IRA because they were nationalists. Clerical nationalism would also translate to the Church's support for Franco's Spain (and Irish Catholic volunteers for Franco's side in the Civil War).
Then again, I was struck by a TV documentary a while back, on Republican and Loyalist prisoners, by what the contents of their respective libraries and murals revealed. While there was the predictable left nationalism and anti-imperialism in the Republican side (compatible with fascism), nevertheless, there was a nod to an idea of global human solidarity in the range of books and mural imagery, however attenuated. From what I saw of the Loyalist stuff, I couldn't but conclude that these prisoners were largely sociopathic scum, with a strong leaning to outright Nazism.
You got any links to the irish catholics who supported franco in the war? thats fucked up.
sickdog24 wrote:
You got any links to the irish catholics who supported franco in the war? thats fucked up.
Nothing internet-friendly, I'm afraid. In 1970 I was 'bequeathed' five bound volumes of a weekly magazine called History of the Twentieth Century, after our neighbours' 20-year-old son tragically died of cancer. In one of the articles dedicated to the Spanish Civil War was an interview with an Irish member of the Condor Legion - he certainly wasn't the only one who volunteered to fight for Franco. I'd love to check it out now, if it was handy, but it's up in the loft... I suspect a lot of them would have been in O' Daffy's mob.
More Irish went to fight for Franco than the Republic. Shouldn't be very suprising considering how clerical Ireland was then and how Franco mobilised the Catholic church.
More Irish went to fight for Franco than the Republic. Shouldn't be very suprising considering how clerical Ireland was then and how Franco mobilised the Catholic church.
Absolute bullshit.
Of the Irish people fighting in the civil war in Spain two thirds fought against the fascists (some even of them were minor Roman Catholic clergy).
And remember that the Vatitican always opposed the anti-colonial forces in Ireland and the influence of the protestant churches in whiping bigotory and pogroms in the occupied six counties which were regular occurances before 1969 when people started to fight back against the likes of revol.
And remember that the Vatitican always opposed the anti-colonial forces in Ireland and the influence of the protestant churches in whiping bigotory and pogroms in the occupied six counties which were regular occurances before 1969 when people started to fight back against the likes of revol.
I hope you never get banned off this forum, cos the pathetic bullshit you spout is the best argument against nationalism Ive ever heard. Keep embarrasing yourself and your dead end politics, and me and every other sensible human being with a vision beyond your pointless crap will be happy.
before 1969 when people started to fight back against the likes of revol.
yes, I hear that a plague of revols can be very destructive to crops and livestock.
Absolute bullshit.Of the Irish people fighting in the civil war in Spain two thirds fought against the fascists (some even of them were minor Roman Catholic clergy).
This is entirely incorrect.
The vast bulk of the Irish who fought in Spain were in O'Duffy's Irish Brigade. More than 600 of them in fact, partially mobilised through the National Corporate Party and the Greenshirts but drawing people from across a wider conservative spectrum.
Those who fought against Franco, in the International Brigades for the most part or occasionally with the CNT or POUM, numbered perhaps 200.
The church that temporarily housed the 100-odd Roma people was vandalised last night. story
You got any links to the irish catholics who supported franco in the war? thats fucked up.
Well, there's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_(Spanish_Civil_War) (for some reason this site fucks the link up, tho)
Don't know if it's already been posted but 25 of the 114 Roma who were attacked have now left Belfast apparently, with another 75 due to leave this week.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jun/23/romanians-belfast-racist-attacks
yeah it's mentioned in that link above, it says 14 are likely to stay also
there was some more chat about it on Radio Ulster Talkback again earlier
Choccy, on the link to the Beeb's website you posted there appears to be a glitch in the Matrix. On the video accompanying the article I'm sure the cops put the same guy in the van three times?
haha yeah they look identical
anyway, look at this gem from it:
"This church community was the first to extend the hand of friendship and that makes it doubly disgraceful that it should be attacked."
No you fucking weren't you smug self-congradulatory cunts, the previous nights local residents had went to their aid, and the night before around 20-30 people stayed all fucking night at the families house helping them defend it. None of the church were there.
True that.
Why would it be "doubly disgraceful" anyhow really? If the second person to "extend the hand of friendship" had their house attacked would that be "half as disgraceful"? It's just lazy research and writing I guess.
really the interviews with people affiliatied with that church have made me sick - they're almost glad this shit happened so they could pimp their religion and church, and make themselves feel good. One quote from the pastor was particularly nauseating:
'my office is like the stable in Bethlehem now'
wanker
'my office is like the stable in Bethlehem now'
tell him to put some newspaper down or his floor is going to get ruined.
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I never make excuses for Republicanism. You say my analysis of Loyalism is simplistic and then launch into a simple tourettes fueled rant. Grow up.