Bilderberg 2011

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UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 14:14
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Its a bit like how you assassinate a monarch, and then feudalism collapses, yeah?

Like I mentioned in a previous post, humanity is becoming globally politically awakened, something that has never before occurred in human history and I believe if channeled correctly will lead to a collapse of the ruling class and the systems they have in place to control and exploit us including capitalism.

tigersiskillers
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Jan 29 2011 14:52
UNLiMiTED wrote:
I think that capitalism only serves the rich ruling class, if we get rid of the ruling class then capitalism would also be removed as a consequence.

[Removed the irrelevant bit in the middle]

I would see it as a chain reaction that needs to start with removing the root cause be it capitalism itself or the people who implement/defend its use.
It would be very impossible to fight capitalism without fighting the ruling class and corporations who would vigorously defend it.
I think removing the people who enforce and gain from capitalism would be easier and have a speedier impact then trying to change capitalism itself. Once people understand that there can be equality and an alternative system then capitalism will die and the best way to do is to highlight the inequality we currently have thanks to the ruling class.

It's not the ruling class that causes inequality. They are a symptom of the disease, not the virus itself. Capitalism is not a conspiracy run by a few people at the top pulling levers. By banging on about Bilderberg etc you make it sound that the problem is to do with a particular set of economic and political elites, that if we replaced them with a more ethical set of people everything would be ok.

UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 15:16
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It's not the ruling class that causes inequality. They are a symptom of the disease, not the virus itself. Capitalism is not a conspiracy run by a few people at the top pulling levers

Who gains from capitalism?
you? me? our neighbors?
or is it corporations? dictators? politicians?

What causes the inequality on our planet where the majority of the countries have so called democracy, the power of freedom of choice, is it us the people not making the right decisions? or is it the ruling class and corporations?

I am answering these questions myself and they all go to the "top people pulling levers", what are your answers?

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PartyBucket
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Jan 29 2011 15:33
UNLiMiTED wrote:
I am answering these questions myself and they all go to the "top people pulling levers

Ok then, how do you plan to 'get' to them?

UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 16:05
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Ok then, how do you plan to 'get' to them?

Im not sure, hence why my post is in organize section and my initial question is:

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What can be done to sabotage a group such as this?

By sabotaging the talks I hope 2 results can be achieved, get media coverage and increase awareness and of course disrupt the meetings themselves.

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PartyBucket
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Jan 29 2011 16:18

If that had any point or was even a possibility mightn't they just have the meetings somewhere remote, where you wouldnt have a chance of getting access?
Surely if these people are as powerful as you say, and can have a president assasinated, or do 9-11 or whatever, surely they know that you know and know what you are trying to instigate, and are at this moment plotting to snuff you out?

tigersiskillers
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Jan 29 2011 16:20
UNLiMiTED wrote:
Who gains from capitalism?
you? me? our neighbors?
or is it corporations? dictators? politicians?

That's not what I was talking about, and is irrelevant to my argument. If I thought we all benefited equally from capitalism I wouldn't be on this site.

Quote:
What causes the inequality on our planet where the majority of the countries have so called democracy, the power of freedom of choice, is it us the people not making the right decisions? or is it the ruling class and corporations?

You're still missing the point. The choices made by politicians, corporations etc shape surface phenomena. Some of these choices have worse consequences than others, but none of this addresses the underlying logic of capitalism and hierarchy.

Ruling elites != capitalism

Incidentally, how would you define capitalism?

[edited for quote tags fuck up.]

petey
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Jan 29 2011 16:32

i don't want to bang on about this as it's not absolutely relevant. others here have made the correct point that this is all a distraction, the goal being for workers to gain control of the economy. but i never really understood why people need to believe that there was any conspiracy involved in kennedy's killing, or by extension why everything is operated by a cabal of nabobs. JFK's death certainly didn't benefit anyone. no government policy changed, the mafia didn't get RFK off their backs, the anticommunist rightwingers were in the same position after as before, the USSR wasn't involved. if it was sheer retaliation, then for what?

UNLiMiTED wrote:
an average shooter like Oswald, using a decrepit, war surplus weapon, could have killed Kennedy.

he wasn't average, the gun wasn't crap. and as i say, i've been to dealy plaza, the schoolbook depository is open to the public, and you can go to the window and have a look for yourself (it's behind plexiglass, but you get within a few feet)

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Case closed.

yes:
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Closed-Harvey-Oswald-Assassination/dp/0385474466

UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 16:38
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Incidentally, how would you define capitalism?

Capitalism is an system where privately owned companies are used to make a profit by mass production & distribution of products or services at a cost to the consumer.

Quote:
You're still missing the point. The choices made by politicians, corporations etc shape surface phenomena. Some of these choices have worse consequences than others, but none of this addresses the underlying logic of capitalism and hierarchy.

How would you address the underlying logic?

UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 16:44
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If that had any point or was even a possibility mightn't they just have the meetings somewhere remote, where you wouldnt have a chance of getting access?

Yes its highly possible.

Quote:
Surely if these people are as powerful as you say, and can have a president assasinated, or do 9-11 or whatever, surely they know that you know and know what you are trying to instigate, and are at this moment plotting to snuff you out?

They have larger concerns at the moment I think with the middle east rebelling to the puppet regimes in place and as I mentioned before the global political awakening with protests and unrest around the world.
However yes there is a possibility that my safety could be at risk or that I am being monitored.

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PartyBucket
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Jan 29 2011 17:08
UNLiMiTED wrote:
However yes there is a possibility that my safety could be at risk or that I am being monitored.

UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 17:17

PartyBucket
You may try to ridicule me all you like, it just shows ignorance and lack of respect.
Several people who where trying to show the world that Bilderberg existed where made fun of and ridiculed until its existence was recently proven to be accurate.

petey
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Jan 29 2011 17:52

calling people ignorant shows a pretty strong lack of respect

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PartyBucket
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Jan 29 2011 18:13
UNLiMiTED wrote:
PartyBucket
You may try to ridicule me all you like, it just shows ignorance and lack of respect.
Several people who where trying to show the world that Bilderberg existed where made fun of and ridiculed until its existence was recently proven to be accurate.

Im not denying its existence, what I find ridiculous is your obsesssion with them controlling the entire world from the shadows, and even more so the idea that they might be out to get you.
Its no secret that this website, along with many others no doubt, is read and monitored by various agencies, but I dont really expect to be shot with a magic bullet as a result.

UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 18:28

To Petey:
Well if people want to contribute to a discussion or topic and share opinions I think its ignorant to blatantly flame a persons view without any constructive criticism or feedback regarding the view or topic.
This type of behavior is widely regarded as ignorant.

If you **** your mum then calling you a mother****** isnt as much a lack of respect as much as quoting the obvious. However if you didnt **** your mum then it would be disrespectful.

: )

UNLiMiTED
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Jan 29 2011 18:26
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and even more so the idea that they might be out to get you.

I am not a paranoid tin foil hat wearing person if thats what you think, asking the question you did I feel it could be possible that they can try to locate me and should I arrange plans to sabotage their meeting I think its entirely possibly that they could decide to try to prevent me and I dont think they would be all nice about it.

I wouldnt doubt for a moment that they wouldnt try to hurt someone who stood in their way.

tigersiskillers
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Jan 29 2011 19:21
UNLiMiTED wrote:

Capitalism is an system where privately owned companies are used to make a profit by mass production & distribution of products or services at a cost to the consumer.

How would you address the underlying logic?

Well, here's where we are talking at cross purposes. I don't think that your definition is adequate at all. Apologies for brevity and simplifications, I'm rushing here, but these are factors your definition misses or glosses over in my eyes:

Commodity production - that is, things are made not because they are useful but because they will make a profit.

Capital - it's usually described as that stuff a capitalist owns that is used in the production process - money, machinery, factories, raw materials etc; this is only half the story. Really it's this stuff in motion - wealth that must create more wealth, an ever-expanding cycle of accumulation

Wage labour - capitalism is dependent on the fact that most of us have no choice other than to sell our labour power.

Class society - this means capitalism is a class society. There are people who sell their labour and those who own or manage capital.

Addressing capitalism means acknowledging its class nature, and acting as a class. A lot of the time that means acting defensively (against cuts or to defend pay/working conditions/social conditions) or in our immediate interests (better pay/working conditions/social conditions).

petey
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Jan 29 2011 22:14
UNLiMiTED wrote:
I think its ignorant to blatantly flame a persons view

you mean like typing this?:

UNLiMiTED wrote:
LOL thats just plain ignorant man

and then you waul about others' lack of respect

anyway, pay attention to what's been said about the economic stuff, that's more important