Bin tax touted as environmental measure
May 24 2007 09:21
Quote:
Households could be charged per bag of rubbish as part of the government's plans to boost recycling ... He is expected to allow councils to set up "pay-as-you-throw" schemes using bins fitted with electronic sensors.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6685409.stm
any of our irish comrades got any tips? http://www.stopthebintax.com/
there's a campaign in brighton against a waste reprocessing facility (which seems a bit 'it will hurt our house prices' at times) but one thing they did was organise mass returns of packaging to supermarkets to highlight that the recycling/incineration/landfill debate was premised on gratuitous packaging. bit shit for the asda staff who'd have had to clean it up though (no idea how successful/big this was).
i wonder if they try to bring this in if there's the possibility to link anti-tax stuff to ecological issues. dunno really, any thoughts?
May 24 2007 09:53
#2
cheers Joe, i'll have a good read through if this materialises (you never know if labour are just saying stuff for the press or not, but they do love to legislate)
JoeBlack2 wrote:
We have having a general election today so its quite possible that non collection will spread in the near future.
eh?
May 24 2007 09:55
#3
Also linked with this is alternate weekly collections - the most cynical passing off local government cuts as an 'environmental' meansure I've ever seen.
May 24 2007 09:58
#4
yeah we've still got weekly rubbish collections in brighton, but they've made the recycling fortnightly which means my kitchen's always full of tins and jars, which really encourages me to recycle 
May 24 2007 09:59
#5
Not being a hippy, I don't have this problem as I put all my rubbish in my wheely bin.
May 24 2007 10:03
#6
actually, i think i support the bin tax 
May 24 2007 10:25
#7
The reason the general election today is relevant is that its probable part of the reason the government backed off non collection was that Fianna Fails vote from the Dublin working class was quite big but is being lost to the Labour Party, the Socialist Party and Sinn Fein. As they only just have the numbers to form a coalition government the loss of a few Dublin seats because you have been busy suppressing a popular struggle in them on the eve of the election would be a big problem (remember we have PR here). Once/If back in power they can move against these areas and then have four years for people to forget before the next general election.
The alternative is that they are collecting enough revenue and are happy to wait for the rest to come in via lump sums paying off arriers when people sell their houses. People need to clear any debts of the house to get the legal paper work done so maybe the maths work out OK in that regard in terms of needed revenue.
The only other possibility is that they are afraid that moving on these areas will spark off large scale social unrest (aka rioting). While this is not impossible its quite unlikely and in 2003 they were jailing nursing mothers for blocking bin lorries so they probably have the 'balls' to take that small risk.
May 24 2007 10:29
#8
oh ok, wasn't sure which parties had what relation to the tax, so wasn't sure what significance the election had
Aug 30 2007 11:53
#9
Compulsory recycling starts Waltham Forest from 10 September:
Quote:
From 10 September 2007, residents of in Waltham Forest are being asked to recycle as part of a Compulsory Recycling scheme. This means that all residents in the Get Sorted! Door-to-Door Recycling Service have to recycle paper, cardboard, glass bottles and jars, food and drink cans, plastic bottles, textiles, shoes, batteries and engine oil in their black recycling boxes.Support will be given to residents to ensure they understand the scheme and to help them to recycle. If they continually fail to recycle, they could be fined up to £1,000.
Quote:
Are you introducing fortnightly refuse collection as part of Compulsory Recycling?No, not at the moment.
Quote:
How will Compulsory Recycling be enforced?Black recycling boxes are emptied weekly so it will be easy to monitor which households are not taking part in the scheme. Recycling assistants will visit households who do not regularly recycle to explain the scheme and encourage residents to participate.
Residents who continue not to recycle will receive warnings and formal notices. As a last resort, the Council may prosecute the most persistent offenders. The Magistrates court can issue a fine of up to £1,000.
It's starting.
Aug 30 2007 12:04
#10
This has been in place in a fair few boroughs already. Hackney' did that a while ago.
Some places are introducing incentives - like if you recycle you could win £100 - others are bringing in fines for everyone who doesn't. One guy in an optional recycling area got fined £200 because an envelope fell into the non-paper part of his recycling. Quelle surprise he stopped recycling after that.
Our recycling hasn't been taken away in 3 weeks. But luckily we get daily rubbish collections as we live on a main road.
Aug 30 2007 12:31
#11
Fines for people who don't recycle? Ridiculous! We've had recycling in the main cities over here for a few years now, but there's no incentives or fines - it just gets collected weekly with the refuse. Personally, I recycle as much as possible, but mainly coz that way you use less rubbish bags which are fucking expensive (they only pick up official city council bags).
Aug 30 2007 12:34
#12
similar rumblings down here according to the local rag - an extra £100 on council tax, refunded if you hit your recycling/composting targets (how the fuck would they monitor that?!)
Aug 30 2007 13:59
#13
Joseph K. wrote:
similar rumblings down here according to the local rag - an extra £100 on council tax, refunded if you hit your recycling/composting targets (how the fuck would they monitor that?!)
Some places have chipped bins that measure waste somehow.
Aug 30 2007 21:22
#14
John. wrote:
Joseph K. wrote:
similar rumblings down here according to the local rag - an extra £100 on council tax, refunded if you hit your recycling/composting targets (how the fuck would they monitor that?!)Some places have chipped bins that measure waste somehow.
Yeah and we've got next door's weely bin at the moment since they got swapped a few weeks ago.
Aug 31 2007 02:34
#15
Lewisham's the only borough in London (or something) where you don't have to separate your recycling. In a house of 5 (plus various girlfriends and friends sleeping on the couch, coming round and ordering pizza etc) we actually had the reverse problem of having too much recycling for our boxes. Now I've gone doubtless the place will descend into chaos again under the supervision of D** from the formerly moderately successful pop punk band G*****t***.
Aug 31 2007 02:37
#16
you have a friend in a punk band
cool 
Aug 31 2007 02:44
#17
The band in question actually split up so no. And he's not really a friend. Well I do kinda like him but that's despite him being in a moderately successful pop punk band. That's more of an injoke between me and friends of mine who visited my house. The band in question were utterly appalling btw. They were one of those "big on Scuzz and P-Rock but not the real world" bands.
Aug 31 2007 08:42
#18
Alan wrote:
Lewisham's the only borough in London (or something) where you don't have to separate your recycling.
I thought that was the case in most boroughs - that workers sort it as they chuck stuff into their trucks. It is in Hackney anyway, and Camden.
I would've thought it'd be more efficient to have all rubbish taken away and then sorted centrally, maybe with just wet/food waste separate.
Aug 31 2007 10:37
#19
You're supposed to sort it in the box, obviously that's a shit idea since it's near impossible, but I imagine if they start fining people for not using the boxes, the next stage will be for messy boxes.
Sep 2 2007 20:02
#20
Bin-chipping is yet another example of how ID/surveillence is fast becoming part of everyday life and I think its important to oppose bin taxes on those grounds too.
Plus in a campaign I'd want to get across people shouldn't feel guilty about their individual contributions to waste since so much of is created at the front end by producers who package stuff to the hilt and sell us products that are made to be disposible or so badly made that they break down unnecessarily, whose sell by/use by dates on food often make no sense, processed food that goes stale a day after it's bought - just so we are encouraged to buy more of their crap. All this rubbish sold by us by capitalists who profit at the expense of the environment and then we are expected to pay to clear up the mess? Bollocks to that. Plus if we had social living and used/stored things in bulk we wouldn't need tiny packages, etc etc ... basically turn this around and point the finger at the system, and make it clear if they introduce a bin tax we'll empty our bin bags outside the local council building (not in our streets or neighbours bins, and being careful to remove envelopes and personalised junk mail first).
Sep 2 2007 20:17
#21
Recycling varies massively from one area to another. Alan is right - Lewisham council collect it all in one bin (we have a wheelie bin) - and it is separated at the depot - it's not done by the workers as they load it onto the truck. As it's loaded into a normal refuse crusher it's clearly going to be bulk grade recycling, rather than any quality.
Some boroughs recycle all food waste in separate composting bins. By most accounts, the UK is about a dozen years behind most of Europe on recycling. While I've some sympathy with the environmental arguments, the idea of charging extra for rubbish and recycling collection is just another way of cutting council services and should be opposed.
Regards,
Martin
Sep 2 2007 21:31
#22
little_brother wrote:
Bin-chipping is yet another example of how ID/surveillence is fast becoming part of everyday life and I think its important to oppose bin taxes on those grounds too.
Sep 2 2007 22:18
#23
The local state bureaucracy is trying to make what is a problem of capitalist society something we have to pay for, in our pockets and by our having to endure even more micro-control over our lives. That's enough of a reason for an anarchist to oppose bin/waste taxes. It's really not the duty of revolutionaries to find solutions for better dealing with waste when the root cause is capitalism and our being forced into a way of living that is inherently wasteful of the world's resources (for those that are lucky enough to be able to consume more that we need, anyway). Obviously if they are incinerating rubbish in your backyard you can oppose that too. I'd just like any campaign of this kind to be as antagonistic as possible and not let anyone feel guilt tripped in anyway. Spying by council councils using bin chipping is just one more kind of divide and rule - dividing us into good and bad citizens.
Sep 3 2007 01:17
#24
Or more simply, it's just a necessary devices to allow them to charge per amount of waste.
It's bad enough as is without dilluting it with a civil liberties issue that I think most people would see as being quite spurious...
Sep 3 2007 03:05
#25
I actually disagree Jack. I don't think anyone really likes the idea of having chips in their bins. Apart from anything else, I'd say it's a pretty inefficient/provocative allocation of council funds.
Sep 3 2007 08:17
#26
Alan wrote:
I actually disagree Jack. I don't think anyone really likes the idea of having chips in their bins.
Yes, people don't like it because it'll be used to charge them. People aren't going to think it's about the man watching them - and even if it is, does anyone really give a fuck if the government has a database of how much rubbish we chuck away? The only real issue is that they'll use it to charge people. There's no civil liberties case at all.
Quote:
Apart from anything else, I'd say it's a pretty inefficient/provocative allocation of council funds.
You're taking the piss, yea?
It won't be a cost to council tax. It'll be revenue raising, as they'll use it to allow charges by weight. A small chip to determine weight, coming as part and parcel of a council provided wheely bin is hardly going to break their budget.
Sep 3 2007 08:36
#27
little_borther:
Quote:
people shouldn't feel guilty about their individual contributions to waste since so much of is created at the front end by producers who package stuff to the hilt
agree - I think a tax - paid for by manufacturers - on packaging would be more effective than penalising people for not sorting their rubbish, most of which we have little choice in accumulating.
On a wider note, I hate the way environmentalism has now turned into a kind of puritan individualist lifestyle code - and, as Jack says, a way of extorting more cash from council tax payers.
Sep 3 2007 08:47
#28
Yeah front page article in metro today which looks like it's going to slam "environmental" taxes and products for consumers, not read it yet though...
Sep 3 2007 08:55
#29
John. wrote:
Yeah front page article in metro today which looks like it's going to slam "environmental" taxes and products for consumers, not read it yet though...
glanced at it this morning, thankfully it's alongside satellite shots showing the reality of anthropogenic climate change too, just to pre-empt the idea climate change is just a fund-raising scheme - the article seemed to be saying that a survey commissioned by some right-wing 'taxpayers alliance' or something showed people think green taxes are a scam, and claimed people are paying more than their 'carbon footprint' in tax
Sep 3 2007 09:20
#30
Quote:
the article seemed to be saying that a survey commissioned by some right-wing 'taxpayers alliance'
hmmm ... yeah, read it in the Metro too. Most people will always say they pay too much tax and that the taxes are raised and/or distributed in an unfair or dishonest way, regardless of whether it's green taxes or income tax or council tax or even fines from speed cameras.
But how to conduct an anti-tax campaign without attracting right-wing loonies like the "Taxpayers' Alliance"
Yeah they did the same here, most of our articles from the struggle are archived at http://www.struggle.ws/wsm/bins.html including ones that address the environmental arguments.
In retrospect it might have been as idea for the campaign here to have argued for a revenue neutral tax based on income to get around the environmental argument although to be fair only a few Green Party types ever took the environmental argument seriously.
BTW nearly fours years after the collapse of the campaign there are still a lot of working class areas, including where I live in Dublin, where most people are not paying and where our bins are still collected every week. So although the jailings of 2003 and the local elections rows might have disintegrated the campaign as a unified entity but it was by no means a simple defeat as not only were a number of concessions won to make the tax at least somewhat related to rubbish generated but a lot of Dublin working class are also around 900 euro ahead. We have having a general election today so its quite possible that non collection will spread in the near future.