I was having a look through the AF website and noticed that they advise you not to take cameras on demos an I was wondering why.
I know that the police tend to target those with cameras, but I seem to remember a thread, I think it was one about critical mass, in which someone said that having our own footage was invaluable as the police always fucked theirs up and we rarely incriminated ourselves.
I was just wondering why it was recommended.
edit: I meant "we" as anarchists, I'm not in AF.
As I recall, we put that advice up because the cops were using people's films to prosecute demonstrators.
As I recall, we put that advice up because the cops were using people's films to prosecute demonstrators.
I suppose it depends on the demo, with Critical Mass I'd imagine the demonstrators are probably less likely to be doing things they can be arrested for.
If you notice, in Resistance we no longer put that peice of advice. As you say, it depends on the demo.
also, i usually take a camera to demos because it's a sort of inversion of the police surveillance. by creating our own little panopticon for them, they feel under surveillance too.
That's really going to scare them, you see them getting done all the time for beating up on folks...
For a start, i'd say never take any camera on a demo, reality-wise nobody knows who everyone is, whether they're cops or journos.
Cameramen are legitimate targets!
ftony wrote:
also, i usually take a camera to demos because it's a sort of inversion of the police surveillance. by creating our own little panopticon for them, they feel under surveillance too.That's really going to scare them, you see them getting done all the time for beating up on folks...
For a start, i'd say never take any camera on a demo, reality-wise nobody knows who everyone is, whether they're cops or journos.
Cameramen are legitimate targets!
Arsehole!
BB wrote:
ftony wrote:
also, i usually take a camera to demos because it's a sort of inversion of the police surveillance. by creating our own little panopticon for them, they feel under surveillance too.That's really going to scare them, you see them getting done all the time for beating up on folks...
For a start, i'd say never take any camera on a demo, reality-wise nobody knows who everyone is, whether they're cops or journos.
Cameramen are legitimate targets!
Arsehole!
Your point Dildo?
its other way around mate:
IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE PHOTOGRAPHED, DONT GO TO A DEMO!
simple 
I vote we bring back the good old working class tradition of dressing in our best gear for demonstrations, suit, tie, clean ironed clothes etc.
I vote we bring back the good old working class tradition of dressing in our best gear for demonstrations, suit, tie, clean ironed clothes etc.
I thoroughly agree JDMF, all these dirty dreadheads with their atrocious personal hygeine make us all look silly. Button down shirts and Trilbys from now on.
Seconded (though a v cheap suit is probly more replaceable than sunday best 
). I'd reckon cheap still cameras, in particular digital, would be best for 'incriminating' demos cos pics can be wiped at the touch of a button after and you can argue lack on context in court?
That's really going to scare them, you see them getting done all the time for beating up on folks...
For a start, i'd say never take any camera on a demo, reality-wise nobody knows who everyone is, whether they're cops or journos.
Cameramen are legitimate targets!
That seems odd. The police takes photos anyway, so why not let people on demos take their own, even if they are cops they can't make it much worse and if they're not they could help out.
Yeah, and half (more than half?) the point of a demonstration is to get media coverage anyway 
As I said, the issue was about people taking pictures and then having them confiscated by the cops to use in prosecutions. I'd say, ionly take cameras when you know it's going to be a fluffy demo.
the added benefit of dressing up in style is that you would look good in the police photos.
Also less likely to be searched for wearing unseasonable clothing, and easier to melt into the crowd, ninja style.
I was having a look through the AF website and noticed that they advise you not to take cameras on demos an I was wondering why.I know that the police tend to target those with cameras, but I seem to remember a thread, I think it was one about critical mass, in which someone said that having our own footage was invaluable as the police always fucked theirs up and we rarely incriminated ourselves.
I was just wondering why it was recommended.
edit: I meant "we" as anarchists, I'm not in AF.
I think the AF line is a bit old fashioned. There are (possibly literally) a hundred times more cameras on demos (and in the world at large) than there were on demos in the early nineties. I actually have two cameras on me right now.
With all the FITs that turn up at the big demos the pigs will probably never need to steal other people's film to prosecute people. Cameras are a useful detterent to the cops sometimes, which is good; but anyone taking pictures of people doing illegal stuff is just throwing from the back 
the added benefit of dressing up in style is that you would look good in the police photos.
Sorry to say, it's no debate for me, No Cameras.
How can you predict the reaction of the old bill, stay fluffy or defend yourself? Maybe i'm just stuck in the past, "shop a rioter" ring any bells. The old bill haven't got files on everyone, hence don't know who everyone is. The media does it's bit.
I can't take my camara down the pub without breaking it so I dont feel inclined to take it out on demos.
People have been put away because of cameras on demos. And why would you want to take a camera to a demo anyway?
We stopped having the 'no cameras' line in resistance because so many people have them on their phones now but the basic fact there's no need to take pictures, and people taking pictures put other peoples liberty at risk remains unchanged.
People have been put away because of cameras on demos.
then they shouldn't go to a demo. Demonstration is a public display of some political opinion. Do not go there if you dont want to be there and be counted.
And why would you want to take a camera to a demo anyway?
memories, publicity, material for future stuff, articles etc, perhaps if it is a support picket for some striking workers elsewhere you could send them photos of your event, if it is a good day out, you have some photos to remember it from and so on.
the basic fact there's no need to take pictures,
disagree strongly, see above. One could argue that for those who do not want to be photographed, should not go to demos.
and people taking pictures put other peoples liberty at risk remains unchanged.
I think we have a fundamental difference here of what we mean by demo. By a demo i mean events where i personally have been in the past few years, like support pickets, solidarity marches etc where the risk of things "kicking off" is very low. I dont even want to go to demos where that risk is apparent anyway, 9 times out of 10 they are counterproductive and serve little purpose.
Since when have we been able to decide which demo kicks off and which doesn't? I think you're taking a very naive here.
Since when have we been able to decide which demo kicks off and which doesn't? I think you're taking a very naive here.
This is true. But as long as you don't take any pics of people doing anything bad you'll be fine. No? That would be sound advice.
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yeah as far as i'm aware it's for legal reasons- if most people are carrying cameras then it's likely that at least one will be able to capture some of an incident. also, the more people with cameras, there is less chance of police picking on them (cf. safety in numbers and all that)
also, i usually take a camera to demos because it's a sort of inversion of the police surveillance. by creating our own little panopticon for them, they feel under surveillance too.