Dispatch #2 content/organisation thread
Sep 24 2007
OK starting this thread for dispatch #2 content. Please keep news updates/political discussion on the:
Post strikes
Public sector
Political discussion of dispatch
Back to dispatch
threads where possible.
Sep 25 2007
#2
WeTheYouth, I think there'll be barely enough space about this current dispute in it, and to be honest that type of article usually puts me off news sheets.
So far lined up:
New Postal strike dates and something on the interim period (pay dockings, victimisation, CWU goings on).
Unison witch-hunt and ballot result.
Not sure what the situation is with other sectors atm so have to catch up a bit.
Sep 25 2007
#3
Reckon we should have another 'Pay 2007 disputes roundup' with stuff on the strikes at Aer Lingus and Heathrow, the Glasgow social care workers' victory and the postal workers' wildcats since the last issue (Swindon, Burslem, Stockport and a few others if I remember right).
Should also have a 'continue the 318s' thing, like last time.
Sep 25 2007
#4
Ed wrote:
Reckon we should have another 'Pay 2007 disputes roundup' with stuff on the strikes at Aer Lingus and Heathrow, the Glasgow social care workers' victory and the postal workers' wildcats since the last issue (Swindon, Burslem, Stockport and a few others if I remember right).
definitely.
Quote:
Should also have a 'continue the 318s' thing, like last time.
Yeah, that can go in with pay dockings in SE London (which are as a result, I think there's similar in Watford and elsewhere).
Sep 26 2007
#5
wty - er, no I don't think so...
I'll do unison local govt strike ballot - for 2 day strike in november. i think there's a danger leadership'll call it off if there is a snap election. maybe i'll mention with standard blurb must control our own struggles blah
roundup should include UCU rejection of offer (unison accepted), prison officers wildcat, cops demanding right to strike, PCS ballot, NUT stuff. i could do, or append to roundup.
Sep 26 2007
#6
I think cops and screws "actions" are not part of the working class.
Sep 26 2007
#7
baboon wrote:
I think cops and screws "actions" are not part of the working class.
Should they be ignored outright then?
Sep 26 2007
#8
baboon wrote:
I think cops and screws "actions" are not part of the working class.
That's not relevant I don't think - the fact is it all contributes to the building pressure on the govt to beat the cross-sector pay cuts.
Sep 26 2007
#9
Don't you think there are political dangers with this? Surely the last thing we want is posties, nurses and road sweepers marching alongside the police, POs, etc. This will dilute the class content of the entire movement - there is vast difference between workers who simply happen to be employed by the state and those whose jobs can only take in the context of the state (e.g. the police).
By putting the police on the same level as nurses, it implies that the police (and therefore the state) are a necessary part of society. If the ultimate aim of building such a movement is to destroy the state how is supporting a call for a wage rise for those who defend the state going to support that aim?
Sep 26 2007
#10
who said anything about supporting the police? mentioning that the state is also attacking the conditions of its repressive arm doesn't have to take the form of 'support the screws!'
Sep 26 2007
#11
Where is any of this implied? I think it's worth mentioning that these things (esp. prison officers, police nothing's actually happened yet) are occurring, rather than pretend they're not. I'd not want to include it uncritically but that's not what's being proposed here.
Sep 26 2007
#12
I realise you're not intending to explicitly support the screws, but I think including them in a leaflet about other workers struggles implies they are taking place at the same level. Especially when the stated aim of Dispatch is to build a wider class movement, it implies anything mentioned in it is part of that class movement.
There is a general atmosphere of reinforcing the state at present, where every social problem is responded to with more police, that the police are generally a good thing. Even the slightest implicit support feeds into this whole ideological attack.
And if you include them critically, what are you going to say? Oh, here's what's going on with the police - oh, by the way, they're not really on our side? It seems like something of a complex point to make in a publication the size of Dispatch (unless it's going to be bigger than the last one, of course).
I'm not saying these struggles are irrelevant - in fact, they point to interesting developments at a number of levels - but I think the approach revolutionaries take towards them needs to be tempered with caution.
Sep 26 2007
#13
Demogorgon303 wrote:
I'm not saying these struggles are irrelevant - in fact, they point to interesting developments at a number of levels - but I think the approach revolutionaries take towards them needs to be tempered with caution.
yeah i agree - we can think how/if to word it...
Sep 26 2007
#14
I agree with Demogorgon on this one. Realistically, where would we put it in the issue, in the disputes roundups bit surely? There's not really any space for analysis there and I definitely don't think it should just go in uncritically.
If it was mentioned as part of one of the articles then yeah, I'd be all for it. But if we were just gonna be like "Posties went on strike, in similar news, so did the screws" then I think that would look really bad.
So far articles I can think that are being written are: Update on posties struggle, Unison suck balls and local govt stuff (as well as disputes roundup). Maybe if there was an article about how everyone is getting fucked over by this cut (and then mention that EVEN cops and screws are getting messed about by it) then that'd be okay. Otherwise, I think I'd be really uncomfortable having it in there..
Sep 26 2007
#15
I think at this point, it is best to ignore them. to be honest. If and when Dispatch has grown to a point where it can explore the ramifications of these struggles in depth, come back to them. There are plenty of other clear examples to point to without muddying the water at this stage.
Rather that using column time to pick apart the ramifications of screws and plods issues, why not do a piece on drawing out the issues of the current struggles:
- we're all under attack in every sector;
- that even those workers who aren't under direct attack, are damaged by the decline in the social wage (esp. in the case of health);
- the only way to win is to spread the struggle as widely as possible
- to make a beginning push for discussion between sectors, possibly pointing towards libcom as place to begin this - and if this generates enough interest, consider putting together a public meeting!
Sep 26 2007
#16
Demogorgon303 wrote:
By putting the police on the same level as nurses, it implies that the police (and therefore the state) are a necessary part of society.
Bullshit, does it do that when you support civil service strikes? Oh right I forgot, you're basically Trots so you probably support the maintenance of a government bureaucracy.
Besides, the point is moot, the implication that a striking worker is too retarded to understand the difference between reporting two events and assimilating them is really patronising, and a probable product of an overly objective and determinist approach to the working class.
Sep 26 2007
#17
Ed wrote:
I agree with Demogorgon on this one. Realistically, where would we put it in the issue, in the disputes roundups bit surely? There's not really any space for analysis there and I definitely don't think it should just go in uncritically.If it was mentioned as part of one of the articles then yeah, I'd be all for it. But if we were just gonna be like "Posties went on strike, in similar news, so did the screws" then I think that would look really bad.
So far articles I can think that are being written are: Update on posties struggle, Unison suck balls and local govt stuff (as well as disputes roundup). Maybe if there was an article about how everyone is getting fucked over by this cut (and then mention that EVEN cops and screws are getting messed about by it) then that'd be okay. Otherwise, I think I'd be really uncomfortable having it in there..
I was thinking it'd be alright to have a "two years of workers struggles in the UK" ending with the usual roundup - pensions, AUT, Belfast wildcat, Gate Gourmet - bit of backstory/context etc. which'd also include the recent attacks (pensions, NHS, pay etc.) - it'd fit into that and there'd be space to add caveats there.
Sep 26 2007
#18
Alan wrote:
Bullshit, does it do that when you support civil service strikes? Oh right I forgot, you're basically Trots so you probably support the maintenance of a government bureaucracy.
The fact that the bourgeoisie makes use of administration workers to run its state doesn't make them any less workers. But the police can only be police precisely because they are part of the state. But I hardly think this is the thread to get into a debate on the class nature of the plods.
Alan wrote:
Besides, the point is moot, the implication that a striking worker is too retarded to understand the difference between reporting two events and assimilating them is really patronising, and a probable product of an overly objective and determinist approach to the working class.
If workers automatically developed their consciousness simply by virtue of going on strike, there would be no need for Dispatch at all would there? Dispatch is, after all, only presenting the most basic lessons of class struggle: the need for solidarity across sectors. The last issue even had a panel telling people how to work to rule (the 318), FFS! That appears to pass you by, but you save your ammo for me for suggesting it shouldn't report on some Filth Federation hack whining about coppers right to strike??
If the working class needs its class conscious minorities to produce something like Dispatch in an effort to recover the most elemental principles of class struggle, then I hardly think it's patronising to assume that there is still great confusion within the class on many of these issues. We're still at a point in struggle where the mass of the working class has great difficulty in even recognising itself as a class! Given this situation, it is incumbent on those minorities to be as clear as possible even on very basic points.
Sep 27 2007
#19
I agree with Catch above. A general point: you don't support strikes because they are strikes. If the lesson needed demonstrating, it was demonstrated with force in the reactionary (and massively supported) Ulster Worker's Council strike of the 1970s. Essentially based on the interests of the state, thuggism and religious bigotry. Even though it was it was a strike it was one part of the state against the other.
Catch's suggestion is sound.
Sep 28 2007
#20
It is of course true that tactical lessons can be learned from our enemies and that might be an approach to take to strikes and other actions by the likes of the prison officers, but on balance, given the available space it's probably best to leave this out.
Oct 2 2007
#21
Any news? Whens the deadline for dispatch 2 coming out?
Oct 2 2007
#22
We're not going to rush to get it ready for the first 2-4 day strikes - we learned that lesson last time, and if there's rolling strikes for some time then it's not imperative to get it out right at the start. We've got an outline of topics, but not much actual articles written yet - hopefully by mid-next week there'll be something to post up and pull apart.
Oct 3 2007
#23
catch wrote:
We're not going to rush to get it ready for the first 2-4 day strikes - we learned that lesson last time
I am not sure that you learned the right lesson here. To me the lesson would be to have distribution organised for immediately after production.
Devrim
Oct 3 2007
#24
Well we're going to try to sort out distribution a bit more in advance as well, but since this isn't just about the posties, and they'll be on rolling strikes for months if it's not called off, I don't think we need to have a deadline for the first two day strikes.
Oct 3 2007
#25
the problem with that is that the rolling strikes will get called off, approximately 3 minutes after we print dispatch. i think dev's got a point that the lesson should be we pick a deadline now, and aim to go from plan-print-distro in 7 days max. when that deadline is can be discussed but not having one because the strikes are rolling is a recipe for procastrination.
of course i'm not writing it, but anything i can do formatting-wise or logistically i will, and we've got at least 4 of the solfed local up for flyering picket lines/shift starts as soon as its out, and we can harass the rest of the fed to follow suit, and thus make the AF feel they should do it too. hopefully.
Oct 3 2007
#26
Joseph K. wrote:
the problem with that is that the rolling strikes will get called off, approximately 3 minutes after we print dispatch. i think dev's got a point that the lesson should be we pick a deadline now, and aim to go from plan-print-distro in 7 days max. when that deadline is can be discussed but not having one because the strikes are rolling is a recipe for procastrination.
Yeah sorry I agree we should have a deadline (end of next week?), just don't think it has to be, er, tomorrow.
Oct 4 2007
#27
But tomorrow is now today - and they're on strike. Have we all been lulled to sleep?
Oct 4 2007
#28
No, we made a decision not to use the first day of strikes as a deadline. If the rolling strikes continue there'll be pickets for weeks, if they stop after these two 48 hour ones, it'd be better to analyse why - and we'd hoped there'd be more to discuss about the rest of the public sector by this point, it looks like there might not be though. Obviously the ideal thing would be to be able to produce something both for the start of the strikes and then a followup as needed, but we're not up to that yet.
Oct 8 2007
#29
so is the deadline the end of this week then? we need to be decisive imho
Oct 8 2007
#30
That's what I'm working on yeah.
What about an article on how libertarian communists would organise the postal service?