Anyone know more on this? the conference itself looks vaguely interesting but I ain't that familiar with ENS or how they operate, their links to other groups, etc.
Jan 6 2007 01:14
Jan 6 2007 13:01
ENS, like No Sweat, is a front group for the Alliance for Workers' Liberty, everyone's favourite 'third-camp' trotskyist organisation. I was briefly involved in ENS while a student. I don't have huge problems with the AWL, and find them to be the only one of the trot groups that it's possible to work with sensibly, and who don't have offensively bad politics. In the end, they're still Leninists, though, so that doesn't come without caveats. The structures of No Sweat/ENS are, formally speaking, open, libertarian and democratic in character (better than some front groups). However, they'll almost certainly retain effective control (even if they don't mean to) by weight of numbers, energy (they're generally very active) and organisation relative to other groupings. (Though they did lose control of the Campaign for Free Education, the predecessor to ENS, which was set up as front group, but ended up being used as a machine to elect liberal Kat Fletcher to the presidency of NUS.)
I may go, if I have nothing better to do. Given that anarchists etc. don't organise similar things, you're unlikely to find anything which will address those issues, but be organised by a more libertarian socialist group.
EDIT: actually, thinking about it, maybe I do have huge problems with the AWL - just not in comparison to equivalent groups.
Jan 6 2007 13:22
If i can get down and have not a lot of work ill hopefully be going. It wil be interested to see what comes out of the discussion.
Jan 6 2007 21:14
posi - that was basically my understanding of ENS as a group, and broadly agree with:
Quote:
The structures of No Sweat/ENS are, formally speaking, open, libertarian and democratic in character (better than some front groups). However, they'll almost certainly retain effective control (even if they don't mean to) by weight of numbers, energy (they're generally very active) and organisation relative to other groupings.
[...]
Given that anarchists etc. don't organise similar things, you're unlikely to find anything which will address those issues, but be organised by a more libertarian socialist group.EDIT: actually, thinking about it, maybe I do have huge problems with the AWL - just not in comparison to equivalent groups.
I'm gonna be interested to see how the Education Workers Network progresses as it seems more interesting from some perspectives, but as a means of interacting with students specifically, ENS seems like the best bet at this point in time.
Perhaps, anyway - gonna withhold optimism until have a better idea of what they're up to in practical terms.
My main concern as far as practicality would be their obsession with the NUS - AFAIK it started as a grouping *within* the NUS and a great deal of their rhetoric is based around "reclaiming"/"democratising" the NUS, which seems to mean breaking the hold of certain groups over it, but also making it more of a proxy for whatever Trot cause-of-the-month seems to have come up. their orientation towards the NUS, rather than students themselves, could present an obstacle to long term participation. still...may be worth a look.
if any of you do end up coming down please comment on here, would be good to meet up.
Jan 6 2007 21:55
I think you're absolutely right to say that ENS's big mistake is focussing on student unions - both on individual campuses and at NUS. While trying to take hold of the elected positions is probably a mistake, the time wasted on passing motions which mean nothing to 99% of students in order to have a cock waving fight with SWSS, or whatever factions predominate at student union level, is probably more damaging. Which is odd, since they're all about USAS in the US and the anti-CPE movement, which have firmly ignored and circumvented the equivalent structures in their respective countries. I should have argued this point more forcefully while involved. If I do go to this meeting, I will take the opportunity to put it forward.
In the end, I regretted my brief involvement - time could well have been better spent. Like I say: some good people, an awful lot of energy, a workerism which is unique among student groups (a good thing, IMHO), lots of connections - e.g. did a tour of USAS activists last year. Be connected, but be clear what you want to get out of it to support grassroots activity where you are. Ignore motion passing, unless for some very exceptional reason.
Jonny T - PM me an e-mail or mob number if you like, and we can be in touch. I'm in London anyway.
Jan 6 2007 22:15
Quote:
While trying to take hold of the elected positions is probably a mistake, the time wasted on passing motions which mean nothing to 99% of students in order to have a cock waving fight with SWSS, or whatever factions predominate at student union level, is probably more damaging.
Agreed. tho in fairness, one of their NUS bods did write a piece a bit ago (here) basically arguing that the problem wasn't the time spent debating policy, but rather, that said policy never seems to reach the state of actual action and so remains for the most part completely theoretical and meaningless.
on the other hand, there is a *big* feeling among a lot of people that SUs are more interested in indulging their liberal Third Worldist fetish and their own political hobbies than they are in actually helping those in the education system - which for the most part seems to be true.
of all the student groups out there they seem to be the one that'd be worth....co-operating with is the best way of putting it. not necessarily to join, but to have relations with (oo-err 
).
gonna PM in a sec.
Jan 7 2007 01:20
I may drop by to ply the usual ultra-leftist fare. meet?
Jan 7 2007 10:57
Well... this is almost approaching an organised presence. If any of us were prepared to commit to going, that is.
Si, WTY, anyone else who might be into it: PM me w/ e-mails or phone numbers, we can be in touch, maybe go for a coffee before or after.
Si: I'd be interested to have a chat anyway, your posts a while ago about engaging with, not writing off, friends who're still into idealist/anti-cap politics struck a chord...
Jan 7 2007 12:51
I'm thinking of going, if I can get a cheap megabus ticket? If anyone from EWN or SolFed is going we should meet beforehand.
Jan 7 2007 14:00
I like this 
, having a bit more of a presence means I'll prob head over after all. yeys!
posi, have PMed you my e-mail - reckon we should all meet up a bit beforehand. could someone send out info for this (if it ain't already been done) on the EWN list to see if anyone else is up for coming along?
- Jon
Jan 7 2007 15:28
Libcom in possible real world impact shocker!
Will e-mail you soon Jon. If we were going to meet, we could do it at 10.30 or 11 in the T&G office cafe upstairs - I assume they'll let us use it? Or better to find somewhere else?
Jan 7 2007 16:49
Ill know by tommorow if i am coming.
Jan 8 2007 12:55
Quote:
Will e-mail you soon Jon. If we were going to meet, we could do it at 10.30 or 11 in the T&G office cafe upstairs - I assume they'll let us use it? Or better to find somewhere else?
sounds like the best plan, yeah - maybe if we all aim to get there for 10:30?
how busy it is likely to be tho, will it be easy to find people?
(edited cos I forgot how to do comments...)
Jan 8 2007 16:17
posi wrote:
EDIT: actually, thinking about it, maybe I do have huge problems with the AWL - just not in comparison to equivalent groups.
you remembered palestine innit 
Jan 8 2007 16:43
gosh this is gonna be the social event of the season!
I was once courted by the AWL (at one point literally) would be quite fun to see them all again. And the anarchotrot himself, Gentle Revolutionary.
wait there's no date on that link! I might have an email about it.
Jan 8 2007 16:46
Tacks wrote:
gosh this is gonna be the social event of the season!I was once courted by the AWL (at one point literally) would be quite fun to see them all again. And the anarchotrot himself, Gentle Revolutionary.
wait there's no date on that link! I might have an email about it.
It the 14th
Jan 8 2007 17:39
Tacks wrote:
gosh this is gonna be the social event of the season!I was once courted by the AWL (at one point literally) would be quite fun to see them all again. And the anarchotrot himself, Gentle Revolutionary.
wait there's no date on that link! I might have an email about it.
For some reason the date is given in the column to the right but not in the main article - they left it off the indy post and all. sigh.
speaking of both Palestine and Indy btw - the comments on the indy post for it claim summat between ENS and the Union of Jewish Students. it got my gossip sense all a-fluster. anyone?
Jan 8 2007 18:05
Well i dont know if im middle class enuf, to go all the way down to London, im a sheffield lad that is, well hope this develops the ewn (education workers network) in someway are any solfed members gonna go to awl / ens thing e ...
Jan 8 2007 18:51
I'm definitely not going just to spite WeTheYouth. Take that, bastard,
Jan 8 2007 19:03
Refused wrote:
I'm definitely not going just to spite WeTheYouth. Take that, bastard,
Fuck you then.
Jan 9 2007 04:15
Might try and make it to this, in order to suspend the facade of me being useful. I'll be up in Essex overnight though, so it'll be tricky. No promises or anything. Who else from the EWN is about?
Will there be pub after? That's where the real networking is, people.
Jan 9 2007 13:07
Jack wrote:
fuck I hate students.
We hate you too.
Jan 11 2007 17:22
WeTheYouth wrote:
Jack wrote:
fuck I hate students.We hate you too.
very much so.
anyway, i should be going too. rock and roll.
Jan 14 2007 13:37
watta a fucking giggle.
they gave the rong date on the site and apparently the wrong fucking building too. Just got a call from comrades to ask for details off the net, called the number - no response - call called a AWLful chap i know - no response.
Apparently the TGWU have no idea wtf they were on about
Jan 14 2007 13:56
hehe glad i never bothered going in the end!
Jan 14 2007 14:29
Jack and Alan are there. Jack had forgotten what trots were like.
Jan 14 2007 21:07
Jack wrote:
The guy on the front desk didn't know about the meeting, and sent the Reading lot away.
I thought that was probs the case.
'they seemed fine' - what, cos normally everybody i know is a proper loony? Ta very much mate.
Seriously did they not get to go to any of the meeting at all then? Thats mental.
Jan 14 2007 21:15
missed it. for the best by the sound of it. working too hard to be a proper rrradical student. dammit. 
Jan 14 2007 22:48
we both know you'd have fucking lapped it up pwnce
Jan 14 2007 22:49
you're a nice boy. are you going to the social centres whatnot?
Can comment on articles and discussions
They're an AWL front, but I don't know much beyond that. Here's a chunk of a spat with the CPGB (www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/620/nus.htm) that's vaguely entertaining in a really boring way and searching on "ens awl" brings up a bunch of stuff. It's not something I'd bother with, but it might be worth a look.