Fascism and anti-Fascism

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Noah Fence's picture
Noah Fence
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Dec 9 2018 22:34

So supporting comrades when attacked specifically because of their gender, race or whatever(we’ll leave transphobic attacks out of this because as we know, that’s just a result of their “bullshit lifestyle choices”), is no different to lobbying government, voting for supposedly more progressive politicians or campaigning for women’s faces on bank notes? Ok, you got me there.
And ftr, I’ve insulted nobody, in fact I made a point of telling Meerov that I know he is not an idiot. That’s the very reason why I find his(and your) daft reasoning so surprising.

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AnythingForProximity
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Dec 9 2018 22:57

So you need intersectional thinking to tell you that you are supposed to defend your coworkers (oh wait, you are a landlord, not a worker – let's leave it at "comrades" then) when they are attacked? Weird, but okay. What does it have to offer to the rest of us who, you know, already know that?

Noah Fence wrote:
“bullshit lifestyle choices”

I'm wondering why you put that phrase in quotation marks; who exactly do you think you are quoting?

Noah Fence's picture
Noah Fence
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Dec 9 2018 23:01

You, as well you know. And try getting your research straight.

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AnythingForProximity
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Dec 9 2018 23:10

Never said anything about "lifestyle choices" of any kind, ever. Neither in the connection with transphobia nor with anything else. For some reason, you want me to be a transphobe so badly that you convinced yourself I had actually said something you had unsuccessfully tried to bait me with. Would be funny if it wasn't a bit pathological.

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Noah Fence
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Dec 9 2018 23:09

So when I repeatedly asked you about this why didn’t you just set me straight?

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AnythingForProximity
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Dec 9 2018 23:31

Because I didn't give a fuck about your questions. Anyway, just wanted to establish that you were trying to smear me with an offensive quote of your own making, then lied about which one of us actually wrote that.

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Noah Fence
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Dec 9 2018 23:36

I just spent ten minutes looking for that quote. I asked you about it shortly after the post of yours that I thought contained it. No sign of it and it makes my post at the time nonsensical. Now either you edited it out or I went off my fucking head. If it’s the former then fuck you, if it’s the latter you have my apologies. What is absolutely certain is that I have not tried to smear you, I’ll leave those sort of tactics to you(post #93).

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AnythingForProximity
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Dec 9 2018 23:44

I accept your apologies and in turn apologize for the apparently incorrect remark I made in post #93.

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R Totale
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Dec 10 2018 10:12
AnythingForProximity wrote:
Just as an example, I recently re-read the text through which I'd first discovered Libcom some years ago: We are all "amigos", a powerful account of an IWW member's experience of not just organizing across race lines, but also realizing that race is used by the bosses as a tool to divide the working class.

Yeah, it's a good article. But also, what kind of a divisive intersectionalist prick would write something like this?

Quote:
As a white guy, I have better access to jobs and I enjoy better treatment, relatively speaking.

What labor aristocracy nonsense, amirite?

meerov21
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Dec 10 2018 20:56

AnythingForProximity
"In the way you just described, "privilege theory" is very reminiscent of Lenin's concept of "labor aristocracy", which also sees one part of the working class as being complicit in the exploitation of the other. Of course, in the course of the further degeneration of Leninism (which from the very beginning was nothing more than Kautskyism dressed up in radical language, and which already substantially deviated from Marx), it was the Maoists who really took up the concept with enthusiasm, as it provided them with a theoretical justification for shifting the role of the revolutionary agent from the proletariat to the third-world peasantry. It is therefore probably not insignificant that the originators of the concept of white privilege......"

That's a very accurate observation. I agree with so many things you said. In fairness, I will say that in my opinion Leninism was something more dangerous than just a product of Kautskianism, but Yes, the influence of Kautsky was too, and I partly agree with this definition of Jean Barot (Gilles Dove).

But the main thing here is not it. Yes, quite right, Maoism started a hysterical campaign against the working class of the largest industrial centers, denying its importance, use a notion "labor aristocracy" and instead put forward a theory of uprisings of third world nationalist movements. Undoubtedly, the monster of Maoism wanted to split the working class and weaken it. We now know well how the victories of nationalist authoritarian movements in the Third world turned out.

This is also true of China itself. The Maoists in the early 1950s met growing opposition from the working class, which began mass protests against the new state bureaucracy in Shanghai and other industrial centers. Mao hated the working class and feared it, he destroyed factory committees in the early 1950s and then crushed radical workers ' protests during the Culturel revolution. He sought to use the poorest illiterate part of the population (the peasantry of the ethnic group "haqqa" and fanatical youth), splitting workers and peasants and inciting one part of the workers to another part.

meerov21
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Jan 15 2019 19:19

In general, for the study of the history of Maoism, I recommend the work of Alexander Pantsov. In 2007, the "Young Guard" published the third book by Alexandre Pantsov, "Mao Zedong". As the author himself admitted in one interview, two factors prompted him to start writing this work: first, he wanted to continue the work begun by his grandfather, George Ehrenburg, author of the first biography of Mao Zedong, on the other hand - in the early 90s in the course of his work in the archives of the Comintern, he discovered 15 volumes of materials collected by the KGB at Mao Zedong. This materials shed light on the role of Mao Zedong in the history of the Chinese Communist Party, on its relationship with the Comintern and the leaders of the Soviet Union, and on the causes of the Soviet-Chinese split. The English edition was released in 2012, in 2014 the book was published in Germany, and in 2015 a Chinese translation was released in Taiwan.

meerov21
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Feb 10 2019 03:48

This is a really good article. I do not agree with modern unions and do not consider modern unions a revolutionary form of organization. But on the other hand, this text says a lot of right words about the need for cooperation of workers of different races. This text has nothing to do with white racism or black racism.

https://libcom.org/library/we-are-all-amigos