Fighting crime in our areas

the area i live in is crime free. its old people and perfect families for a 10 mile radius. but if i was to go to a town thats 10miles away, i'd be in chav city. theres chavs everywhere, if you spend more than 20 minutes there you go burbery blind, its like being snow blind except you vunerable to wild townies, instead of the usual yeti when you're snowblind.

Down with the chav community.

This is unacceptable reactionary shite.

TangoMash - can you substantiate any of that?

I hate old people and perfect families infinitely more than chavs.

nice work tangomash, coming out with crap like give people some perspective when reading the public school thread.

erm...i cant substinate it exactly, i was exaggerating.

Was having a chat about this with a friend a little while back whos brother was being targetted by his 'mates' from another estate across town (not Ipswich), car broken into, stuff trashed etc. Although their dad and a couple of people from round the way had done a bit of 'agressive negotiation*' to make the little fuckers stop it, there wasn't a hell of a lot they could do cos the gang wasn't local.

Best we could come up with was seeing if anyone from that end of town might also be having problems and basically piling pressure on their folks/ harrassing them every time they step out of line til they get the message. Problem with that of course is you need a fair bit of coverage and people willing to enforce it - also they might not give a shit, or be in with something more organised, in which case it can get really nasty...

*which apart from being a euphemism for giving them a good kicking is also the single worst line of dialogue ever penned by George Lucas

Authorities, including police, like to see crime in working class areas, will do everything they can to encourage it unless forced to do otherwise.

Your could form a residents association/anti crime action group in your area by public meeting advertised by leafleting, have yourself made the chairperson or secretary, and then get on the police and Procurator Fiscal/Crown Prosecution Office case with a vengeance. (Either that or just do it off you own back without the preliminary group if you are not totally alone in the area.) The IWCA do that by organising public meetings at which senior police officers are in attendance to get abuse from the public for their inaction, in areas I'm active is by direct complaint to police and PFs.

You should get the local superintendent sub-divisional commanders direct phone number and be prepared to call it and complain non stop. Also be prepared to go into the superintendents office for personal meetings (the IWCA I think balk at this, organise public meetings with superintendents instead). Similarly the PF/CPO should be bombarded with demands for action. Be prepared to make a lot of complaints to the police complaints commission. The police will hate you for this, but at least in Glasgow don't do anything in revenge beyond low level harassment and nasty threats.

Superficially ironically, the libertarian response should be:

* more police patrols

* more cameras

* more prosecutions

Along with setting up facilities, youth clubs, jobs for youngsters.

Interesting thread. Can't be arsed to type much though. Shouldn't this be in Organise?

The text message tree seems like a great idea.

Are there any unemployed people on the court?

You could train them and other employed people could chip in for steels and a few baseball bats.

If you do catch one of them you could explain that robbing the rich, while slightly harder is much more rewarding.

Interesting stuff JDMF... Don't really have anything useful to say because I haven't really heard of anything happening much really related, other than a couple of sparce accounts about IWCA activities, but I don't know what's happened with them (but like afraser said I've heard they started with a public meeting, and I've heard of pickets of houses of known anti-socials). Where I've lived it's not really been an issue. Well 2 doors down there's a house with a massive family who robbed next door, and when next door went to theirs they found the family had all of their stuff! So they just told the rest of us, and we told the new people who moved in. I think the family have moved out though (after they got back from prison). Not seen or heard them in a few months...

You want to apologise for that rubbish?

I'll have to come back to this later... because I'm busy at work.

I've been involved in a lot of anti-social behaviour work in the past when with the IWCA...

Unfortunately, most of the material from this period, the Petersfield Action Group, is gone...

Other than the occasional roads being closed off due to stabbings and shootings and the odd stand-off with SO19 But yeah I've never really come across much either.

Although a few 8-10 year old kids jumped all over our car (as in up and down on top of it) when my pregnant wife was in it outside the new place. She called me on her mobile and I ran down the street after them then had a bit of a slanging match but they were two young and small to get heavy with and I'm too young and skinny to look scary so it wasn't my finest moment!

Fighting crime is like trying to sew back a severed limb knowing its going to be chopped off again. Crime is a response to the damage done by the conditions that people live in... it will always continue so long as people are born into an inhospitable world. However, I do have a few thoughts/experiences I’ve discussed and thought about over the weekend, which others may find useful.

So many people are facing the same problems, we always seem to be starting from this ‘what can we do? situation. Perhaps collectively a leaflet might be produced from the contributions here, beginning something long-term which can be critically reflected upon and developed.

I have separated my points into two categories: A. community/personal activities; and B. social management interventions.

Revolutionaries might baulk at social management measures, thinking that it is not our job to manage their mess... communism is the reorganisation of wealth not poverty. However, the revolution might never happen and we have to live, so...

On the individual/community scale:

1. I live in a more established ‘old fashioned’ estate... the crime is less feral and more stable, it is generally run by families... being in the front garden/on the street corner means you collect intelligence and meet the more ‘respectable’ members of these families... if something happens you can say to them ‘this has gone too far...’ in a non-conflictual way. This personal contact is surprisingly effective. Also, getting to know kids from an early age... my wife knows all the kids’ names. We learnt this tactic from an old lady who spent the whole summer at her garden gate chatting and ‘observing’.

2. Getting the hell out... this is a personal response... the last place we lived I used to eventually fall asleep with a baseball bat in near reach as drug dealers ran around on our roof. We waged a persistent campaign to get out, getting doctor’s letters, health visitor letters e.t.c. to support our case – if you are in the housing office every day, asking how near the top of the list you are, they soon get tired of you.

3. A more community campaigning response... find out who the council’s insurers are, and press them to raise the premiums unless something is done.

4. It is important to remember that kids rule the street because others are at home watching tv... no wonder it feels ‘strange’ going out at night, many people are not used to it. Also the more isolated an individual the more likely they will respond to trouble in an isolated manner and thus invite even more of the same. It is not appropriate to weakly shout or complain in the spur of the moment... everything must be done to avoid further humiliation (i.e. making the victim feel responsible, or not ‘tough enough’) and also to prevent the criminals from feeling justified. At an individual level, ‘us and them’ is a game they are likely to win – as they are probably more able to ruthlessly raise the stakes and get away with it.

5. Above all, people talking to people beats isolation and socialises children. Communities are created from endless interweavings of dialogue... and strong communities, communities based on endless dialogue, are naturally more resistant to crime from within.

6. Women are much more able to diffuse situations, sort problems, oppose troublemakers... again, my wife, carrying our baby, once saw off a gang of youths and made them hand back a stolen bike. Women can make aggressive men feel small without threatening them. Women’s groups (whether based on community projects, discussion, yoga, art or whatever) are essential to working class communities. Macho posturing is part of the problem.

11. I’ve tried to think of some ‘strengthening’ exercises... perhaps a group called something like ‘living with fear’. Participants would be encouraged to write stories, poetry, plays or just talk about their experiences (problem kids could be invited)... role playing games could develop an understanding of the psychology of the thieves/vandals and thus anticipate them better – be better prepared (for example, practising what to say in the street if you get racially/sexually harassed, or just harassed in general).

12. It is as well to remember that ‘personnel’ resources for most local campaigns are very low... often you have to work with people who have a lot of problems. Most ‘normal’ people are used to ‘not getting involved’, they prefer individualist strategies (lights/locks/fences/cameras/dogs), getting them interested is the most important step... get to know as many of these at a personal level: if they can’t make a meeting, ask why; what can they make; do they support the aims of the group etc., etc. It’s not about being pushy

Social management measures:

1. You talk of living in a ‘court’, this suggests long term and architectural problems of duckaways, passages, hidden corners, vulnerable windows, lighting problems etc. I think it was in Manchester that a community co-ordinated with an architect to address such problems. Perhaps an approach to sympathetic/progressive architects could be useful, they might be able to table proposals to design the flaws out.

2. Campaign for the local surgery to set up a drug users clinic (away from the residential district, find out about the workings of similar others)... designed for counselling, heroin prescription, needles, registration of users etc. This both helps those with problems and displaces large numbers of addicts into industrial areas for long periods of the day (giving residents a break).

3. A moveable youth club (buildings are too prone to be burnt down) based in a double decker bus for example... which puts on activities that have as high a kick as illegality.

4. Parenting skills/encounter groups for identified problem families – linked to benefit ‘bonuses’ above the basic – those who demonstrate commitment to improving their kids behaviour get extra points for home improvements and ‘baskets’ of proper food. In some areas attendance at school and eating healthily is rewarded over a year with an ipod.

5. Community meetings: People shouting at police community officers/ housing officials is fun, they squirm and have to take it, and it can be useful as a place for contacts. However, asbo’s, police and cameras are not a long term answer; crime is not defeated by specific anti-crime measures which are actually designed only to manage/circulate crime. Perhaps a name and shame/poster campaign, with photos might help.... I’m not sure – revenge activities are not sustainable and no positive self-image for the community may be derived from vigilantism (IRA ‘policing’ proves this). Equally, collective bargaining from out of public meetings only works if collective action is a likely option, otherwise it lobs up easy opportunities for the professionals to blah blah at.

6. The answer of the authorities is always ‘cost’, a thorough examination of council costs will reveal irregularities and absurdities that can be thrown back at this excuse... sustained protests at expensive ‘prestigious’ events are very useful; on the other hand, if you do get a result (funding/reforms/measures you’ve asked for), a box of chocs/bunch of flowers makes individuals employed in the offices feel like they’re doing a good job, they will be more sympathetic to the next set of demands.

I think this is a bit of a myth - ime plenty of people are prepared to punch women who are attempting to 'diffuse' situations, particularly if it's gangs of younger teenagers/kids you're dealing with.

I see your point Thora my sister's mate got punched in the face after asking people to be quiet in a lecture.

DR cous Cous has a point. Knowing kids is a good start, as long as you keep the boundaries.

Catch: I know the feeling. Hitting them does nothing, chasing them gets them excited and doing nothing does nothing.

Some very good ideas Cous Cous. If some slightly below-par counting

This is a major problem in our area.

We're currently trying that IWCA approach outlined by afraser, doing it through the community council.

Would it be worth doing stickers with the chief constable's telephone and contact details on it? Might noise a few people up.

It will be a massive problem once the residents group there try to tackle it in the neighbouring scheme coz of all the heroin. No fucking idea how to deal with drug dealers backed up by the cops other than brassnecking it and dressing them down in public, opposing the midnight ice-cream vans? Any suggestions?

i think youth centres are definetly the way forward. in germany there has long been a tradition of autonmous youth centres, some of which get funded by the council/local funds, but dont really have to answer to anybody. this is obviously dependant on german law, but i just wish there were more over here. i guess since the government got tough on squatters and the like, they also ruled out a lot of chances to give kids a place to go thats not home or school. although, i hear alex from fuckhatepropaganda is working on a youth centre in stoke, and pilger do lot of good work on the southcoast.

To Nick Durie,

You asked for suggestions, I’ve got nothing concrete/sure-fire I’m afraid... but I’ve given it some thought.

The problems you face are very difficult as each element impacts the effects of the others, and no single issue can be ‘reformed’ simply on its own terms. However, I’m referring here mostly to a campaign against organised criminals, which you raised.

As an outsider I can only really try to be as clear as possible, offering general points – obviously I risk being very wide of the mark. Firstly, I would suggest that you ask yourself a series of big questions before you decide on a strategy:

1. What is it that you want to achieve?

2. What is it that you are prepared to settle for?

3. What is your role in this as an individual?

4. How much of your life are you prepared to give as your participation (and for how long)?

5. What losses are you prepared to take (ideological/monetary/effort/sanity/time/physical threats etc)?

6. Who are you prepared to work with (assuming you don’t want to become police informers, and don’t want to go into ‘partnership’ with the housing authorities)?

38. Do you want to achieve your objective by any means necessary or only by consensual/libertarian procedures?

94. Most community campaigns play out as a kind of stalemate and end up joining the ‘balance of forces’ as just another pressure group in the local array of agencies... no matter how passionately you start out, how do you feel about this likely depressing end – do you still think it is worth continuing?

When you have established written answers to these you will have sketched out a strategic framework. I think you will then be able to move forward without feeling you are being sucked into a bottomless pit, which is so often the case with combative community interventions. The next step is to assess what personnel resources you have, which will determine the nature of the community’s collective engagement.

The minimal level of individual involvement would be collecting of information; the group will need to know target addresses, times, car registrations etc. This will need to be collated and regularly updated... decisions can later be made on what to do with this dossier. Before you go public as a group you will need to reconsider consequences – will shit hitting the fan be worse than what you are already living with?

The question of escalation... a public group/intervention needs to be as widespread as possible. That is, it must have as many contacts/friends as it can muster, and also have a wide pool of skills to call on.

There are many ‘progressive’ social professionals out there, they make their living from addressing the problems you live with... locate them via the internet for defined help with defined problems. I would suggest you need reliable people with legal knowledge (perhaps someone from the the CAB), you will need health/social workers with expertise in the area, you will need someone with urban planning knowledge. Also, when you go public, you don’t want to be identified as author/spokesman/leader and so make yourself a target... it would be better to find a ‘public face’ from outside the immediate area.

All of these professionals are present in your local university and/or only an e-mail away somewhere in the world... they will be able to supply ideas and examples of where innovations have worked and how they were implemented. For example, as a beginning, Lab Rat talks of youth centres in Germany, maybe he can find the contacts for you... if the scheme is a success its representatives should be prepared to come and give a talk. However, it is important to remember you are asking for professional expertise ‘freelance’, on your terms, not theirs.

You will meet resistance from the authorities but they are bound by laws and policy statements, it is up to you to find out about these and be able to quote them.

Don’t hesitate to spread the base of your engagement, use libcom to make appeals for aid of materials.

From what I’ve read, nobody has the answers here, which means you would be pioneering this...

good wishes,

pil

Freedom just put out an interesting an article on this at http://libcom.org/news/article.php/iwca-community-crime-040306

Prompted me to read Blackbird Leys IWCA http://www.bliwca.fsnet.co.uk/news.htm, full of good examples and stories on that site, well worth checking.

Yeah it's worth a read. It's a bit of an all or nothing viewpoint the guy articulates but the critique of the IWCA seems accurate enough.

Personally if I'd won greater policing for an area beset by crime and it made folk's lives better (even if it didn't add up to having a citizens milita operated by the local commune) I'd be tempted to use it as a propoganda tool for solidarity, not decry it as 'more of the fucking state man! argh!' However as the guy points out thewre are very obvious limits in forcing the state to do shit for socialists.

There's some good stuff in there Cous Cous. I'll respond later when I've got more time.

Like a lot of the social management stuff.