hand signals in meetings
Mar 24 2007 21:41
I've met a few people recently with otherwise good politics who have defended these. I mean stuff like "jazz hands" (waving you hands in the air) for agreement, weird pointing for a "direct response" etc. etc.
Can anyone at all justify these? Personally, I think any help they give in running a meeting can be replecated with a decent chair, and any other bonus is totally counteracted by how weird and fucked up they make a meeting look to any newcomer - personally I think a lot of people do use them for that reason, to seperate themselves away as good activists who know all the meeting rules etc.
Does anyone have other experiences? Anyone found them useful? Can they be used in stopping blokes dominating a meeting? And most importantly, who has good stories of dickhead activists looking like nobs using them?
Mar 24 2007 22:02
#2
This happens in the US. People who do this should have their hands cut off.
Mar 24 2007 22:09
#3
If a room full of people suddenly began the jazz hands I reckon I'd laugh myself into a coma.
Mar 24 2007 22:22
#4
Some of them I can see a purpose to....
Technical point - having a way to immediately see someone has something to say regarding the meeting itself is useful, particularly if the point is urgent. it's a much more immediate way for the facilitator to identify it than having someone raise their hand and potentially be in queue for ages, or have to talk over people.
Direct response - similar to the above, makes it easier to immediately respond to what people are saying. only makes sense when the response is actually direct, in that it changes the nature of what it's responding to. "I think we should move our meetings here", "Direct response: we can't, they're shut on this night" saves having someone queued up while people waste time discussing a subject without vital information.
Jazz hands I don't really see the point of. The "proposal" one doesn't allow people to jump the queue and so doesn't add anything to the process of the meeting that a regular hand followed by "okay, here's the proposal..." would do. The one for block (in consensus based groups) doesn't add anything that "Does anyone block this?" "I do" doesn't have.
I'm sure there's others but I forget what....
Mar 24 2007 22:25
#5
So 2 small procedural advantages that surely could be achieved just as well with a good chair?
Is this worth making it look a alienating to outsiders?
Mar 24 2007 22:34
#6
eh, I'm not in love with the hand signals as a whole and generally don't use them. but those two specific ones can help make the role of chair easier to manage and can make the meeting flow better - if used properly (as oppose to people seeing "direct response" as "I'm more important than you so I'm going to jump the queue). and neither is particularly alienating IMO. most of the others I just don't see contributing anything to meeting process in the slightest.
Mar 24 2007 22:43
#7
hm, to be honest yea, if there was just 1 "responding directly to something you just said" thing, I guess it could be useful in large meetings, but generally they come as a bundle - I've never seen a meeting with a smaller set, it's usually either been all or nothing.
I'm trying to think when it's arisen, I think in my group if we had a point like that we'd just put our hand up and politely say "can I respond to that" or something.
catch testing to see what's going on, ignore
Mar 24 2007 23:01
#8
Hand signals work great in meetings. Here's a comrade making a "Point of Parliamentary Procedure" at the recent BASTARD conference.
Mar 24 2007 23:42
#9
Just break their fingers and that will settle this disruptive nonsense.
Mar 24 2007 23:58
#10
Found this helpful guide for you Jack.
Mar 24 2007 23:59
#11
read my middle finger
Mar 25 2007 00:02
#12
Fuck, I was hoping you guys would have more than we did, and so seem even lamer. 
Mar 25 2007 00:04
#13
syndicalist wrote:
read my middle finger
Its people like you that make it necessary for meetings to have a vibe watcher.
Mar 25 2007 00:05
#14
I bet you use hand signals in your union meetings.
Mar 25 2007 00:06
#15
What, per chance, is a "vibe watcher"? Do you mean to gauge peoples karma?
Mar 25 2007 00:08
#16
Jack: I bet you use hand signals in your union meetings.
The middle finger, the pointing finger and the fist mainly.
Mar 25 2007 01:11
#17
Quote:
The middle finger, the pointing finger and the fist mainly
WSA meetings sound much more debauched than Sol Fed ones. 
edit - how the fuck is this post 2 hours in the future? 
Mar 25 2007 00:13
#18
syndicalist wrote:
What, per chance, is a "vibe watcher"? Do you mean to gauge peoples karma?
Dude. Seriously. Its hilarious. They appoint someone who's job it is in the meeting to watch for negative facial expressions and body language. Then if its "serious" they interrupt the meeting and call you out for your negative energy or something.
Don't you know anything about real @narkyism!!!11?
Mar 25 2007 00:21
#19
Quote:
Dude. Seriously. Its hilarious. They appoint someone who's job it is in the meeting to watch for negative facial expressions and body language. Then if its "serious" they interrupt the meeting and call you out for your negative energy or something.
Please, please, please tell me this is real!
Mar 25 2007 00:25
#20
Jack wrote:
Quote:
Dude. Seriously. Its hilarious. They appoint someone who's job it is in the meeting to watch for negative facial expressions and body language. Then if its "serious" they interrupt the meeting and call you out for your negative energy or something.Please, please, please tell me this is real!
Mar 25 2007 00:38
#21
Jesus fucking Christ! That's almost as mental as a gendered stack.
Mar 25 2007 00:48
#22
Jack wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ! That's almost as mental as a gendered stack.
I got yelled at by starhawk once for bad vibes.
Mar 25 2007 00:50
#23
I think the jazz hand one is useful - its not the same as taking a vote. Its a non-verbal way of expressing agreement, which can speed a meeting up no end because it prevents a string of people saying "I agree with what he said". It also allows people who don't feel comfortable speaking in front of a room of strangers the chance to participate. It can exclude people if it isn't explained before the start of the meeting how the meeting is going to be run - but you could say that about any procedural technique.
Mar 25 2007 00:50
#24
Quote:The middle finger, the pointing finger and the fist mainly
WSA meetings sound much more debauched than Sol Fed ones.
edit - how the fuck is this post 2 hours in the future?
------------------------------------------------
You see WSA can control time and space. We have the grooveist vibes and organize at the speeed of sound and, uh, whoa, ah, my head, oh, wow, must've been this thread or the or the or the ... wow man..... oh, pass this thing along 
Ok, enough of this sillines for me. Enjoy the hand single bit. And the next time you get pissed off say: Excuse me bro.--middle finger up---"have a nice day" They'll catch the vibe.
Mar 25 2007 01:51
#25
thugarchist wrote:
Jack wrote:
I got yelled at by starhawk once for bad vibes.
I was bullyed by starhawk into going to a meeting about compost toilets. feel my pain.
Mar 25 2007 00:58
#26
sovietpop wrote:
I think the jazz hand one is useful - its not the same as taking a vote. Its a non-verbal way of expressing agreement, which can speed a meeting up no end because it prevents a string of people saying "I agree with what he said". It also allows people who don't feel comfortable speaking in front of a room of strangers the chance to participate. It can exclude people if it isn't explained before the start of the meeting how the meeting is going to be run - but you could say that about any procedural technique.
Its insular crap that alienates anyone trying to attend a meeting who isn't integrated into the specialized activist scene. Plus its just stupid.
Mar 25 2007 01:17
#27
ffs, editting is fucked, sorry SP, fixing your quote moved your post.
Mar 25 2007 01:20
#28
sovietpop wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
Jack wrote:
I got yelled at by starhawk once for bad vibes.I was bullyed by starhawk into going to a meeting about compost toilets. feel my pain.
Is that where she found her politics?
Mar 25 2007 01:41
#29
If the 'jazz fingers' are too alienating, why not use the thumbs up? Everyone'll know it means agreement or support.
Mar 25 2007 02:02
#30
Antieverything wrote:
If the 'jazz fingers' are too alienating, why not use the thumbs up? Everyone'll know it means agreement or support.
Why not just have a meeting like normal people instead of being jackasses?
Jazz hands? That sounds so hilarious that I'm in favour.