Marcher's experience of Black Bloc on 26th March

I think you're confused by what was said.

Then your laughing is misplaced, since that is no what is being said, or even considered. As was said, the individual is its own revolutionary subject, meaning that someone can come to this way of thinking in many ways.
And whats with this macho lark? How is busting stuff macho, or are you one of those people who like to engender actions?

Romantic? Perhaps some of the prose is elegant, which a few people seem to want to take issue with, despite it reading a damn site better than any old skool shit. But this is down to taste.
Out of touch with what, your understanding of the world and revolution? Why should be not act in the immeditate terms, trying to breakout of their condition/ings of passivity. Why not learn to act and meet others with the same desires. If there is a contradiction in class society, we are it and any action we take is the refusal to accept such realities.
Smashing is not the praxis of insurrectional thought/discussion. Black bloc is not insurrectional, though it can be used for these means and by people with this outlook. Insurrection is a mass action.
Yes, liberal demoncracies allow people to organise freely, as long as they are not a threat. I do not understand why supposed enemies of the State believe that the apparatus shall allow them to organise effectively for its downfall or rather seizure, because it is done so 'peacefully'. Especially when the time that such radical groups will grow and gain more interest will be at times of struggle, which will mean that people will be fighting it phyiscally- just as now.
What's with this getting heads bashed in based on? Police and soliders are been sent in to get workers back into their workplaces before, you know...

i said free of overt repression, not totally free of repression. there is a difference between getting beaten up and having undercovers operating within your group.

obviously if necessary we should assist workers struggling against being forced back to work, i do not regard myself as dogmatic over the issue of violence, just avoid it unless it is absolutely necessary. i am a jedi afer all

But even then a true jedi uses his enemy's own force against him...

I think the original post got to the heart of the question: the attitude of the black bloc to the rest of the movement, the lack of interest in engaging with the 'mass' of the protest and insisting at all costs on following its own agenda of spectacular acts. action_now seems to provide a theoretical justification for this attitude when he says “I do not believe it is possible to 'win over' a mass group, which is far from homogenous because of some alledgely innate contradiction rooting itself in the current mode of production or civilisation in general”.

Harrison is right to point to this passage as expressing a very different understanding of class and class struggle, even a rejection of the very notion. Obviously if it’s not possible to ‘win over’ a mass group, or rather play a role in a process through which the ‘mass group’ changes its view of itself, then you might as well do just do stuff that gives you and your mates a buzz.

On a related point, I am not sure how the term ‘insurrectional’ anarchism first came about. But I think it’s a misnomer. Insurrection to me signifies a very high point in the collective struggle of the class – a direct assault on the capitalist state by the armed workers’ councils. Obviously such a moment can only be prepared by increasingly massive and self-organised class struggles

The word insurrection reminds me of the Tarnac 9 ho ho ho ho!

the merits of pitfalls of insurrectionism have been done to death on these forums. I said it before, and I will say it again, I think we should deal with this in a case b case basis, 1905 Russia and even to an extent 2011 Greece are very different from March 26th, now I am not condemning the action, I have spoken to people who, if not supported it out right (probably through an awareness of not looking like a bogeyman 'anarchist' supporter) have at least shrugged off the damage and understood its context.

Though I may sound like a bit of a base = superstructure determinist here, I believe we have to look at the current socio-economic climate and the sort of political subjectivities it is making plausible. I have to say, I don't think the cuts have really hit hard enough yet to talk about anything like an 'insurrection', let alone any sort of real mass direct action (peaceful or otherwise).

Regardless of how the black bloc sees itself or how the older and generally more tamed working class see it, to say that it's completely separate or superior to other working class people ignores the consequence of its actiions on March 26th, which seems to have contributed to revolutionary perspectives far more than the actions of the specialists in "revolution"; that is if the following quotes from posts by "alan on tyneside" in the royal wedding thread are a genuinely realistic assessment:

and

(posts 12 and 21)

Anybody fancy commenting on what the post was actually about, ie, how the black bloc affected and interacted with other people on the demo, and whether that was positive or not?

Samotnaf, the reason why I jumped in on the Royal Wedding thread to back up gingeranarchist was that his voice seemed to me to be absolutely authentic and because we are unlikely to hear that sort of voice very often here, for obvious reasons.

I say authentic because I have been hearing & seeing similar things, since Millbank really, but much more since 26th March. It's all anecdotal evidence; just a couple of examples:
i) there's a copy of 'No Comment' flying around a local estate & people are impressed with it. I disingenuously asked who had produced it:

"the anarchists of course"

It was the'of course' that cracked me up.

ii) early on March 27th I got a call from a lad from the same estate who had been following the previous days events on TV; very impressed with the black bloc tactic and hoping that it would be continuing that day, (and the day after and the day after...). Yesterday, the same guy says:

"I've just realised I've been an anarchist all my life"

I'm not saying that the kids on the estates are about to lead us into the glorious revolution, (although that's certainly what some of them would like), I'm saying that six months ago there was nothing and now there's awareness, interest, discussion & respect.

That respect should be mutual. For me, it's not a question of whether this is happening, the question is how we relate to it. And the big difficulty that I see in answering that is that some sections of the class seem to be increasingly energised and confident, while organised labour is exactly the opposite.

This isn't just about kicking off; Gingeranarchist's later contributions to the royal wedding thread should have made that clear. But advising these young people that they need to go back into their communities and quietly bulid grass-roots organisations until its decided that the time is right...well, that just won't cut it.

We need to discuss it; maybe we need to be asking ourselves what we can do to facilitate. Jim Clark's agency work initiative has real possibilities. But whatever we propose has to go beyong the merely defensive, necessary as that is. And it has to involve doing things, not talking about it.

As the group Solidarity wrote:

'Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others - even by those allegedly acting on their behalf.'

As if the nom-de-plume wasn't enough... the use of "their" here is disgustingly vanguardist. Solidarity? Piss off. Confine it to the same tedious ideological wastebin as the Courant Syndicalist Revolutionnaire... We all all know what we must do: avoid those who think they can quote creative movements or adapt faux-leninism to create libertarian credentials. If you imagine I hate you, you have little imagination. I actually despise you, and look forward to coming back to this shithouse in a few years when you will have been beaten down a bit more.

admin: no flaming, this is a warning

This is embaressing, and not even worth engaging with. Classic irrelevant accusation of leninism....

@yearzero

Just to say that I found your Solidarity quote very helpful. Thanks.