OCAP?
Jan 10 2007 15:52
Hi folks,
I was wondering if there was anybody on these boards that knew much about the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty - or even is/was involved with them?
Its been on my mind for a while to try doing something around homelessness, similar to what I understand OCAP did (or does?).
I mean, I saw some folks on here recently talking about givin out food, Food Not Bombs style. I was kinda thinking more about housing and poverty as the issue, and looking at the fact that our town has fucking loads of big empty buildings. As an example there is a couple of ex-student halls, with like 100 bedroom, easy to crack and even furnished (weve been in before...)
So, yknow, dream scenario is to talk to and organise loads of homeless folks to occupy this building (or any other - theres loads!) for housing. It even has space for nice little garden and maybe we can rent allotment plots or squat land to grow food etc. I dunno... its all bit cloud nine. But I heard OCAP did similar stuff, and I wondered about some of the obvious problems:
Like how they dealt with the issues of drugs, alcohol, mental illness and violence?
Or how it goes with homeless people cracking homes and then losing them again due to the insecurity of squatting?
Or trouble from the outside community who 'dont want this shit in our backyard' etc?
So yeah, if anyone knows anything, itd be much appreciated!
Cheers.
Jan 10 2007 16:04
#2
gerrardw wrote:
Its been on my mind for a while to try doing something around homelessness, similar to what I understand OCAP did (or does?).
Check out http://www.ocap.ca/
This and loads more welfare related links here:
http://www.geocities.com/ncajsa/
Jan 10 2007 16:06
#3
I was talking to a Canadian recently who said he wasn't sure if OCAP were still going?
Jan 10 2007 16:41
#4
gerrardw wrote:
Like how they dealt with the issues of drugs, alcohol, mental illness and violence?
Some of these issues and related things are covered in this Wildcat article on an occupied council block in Germany:
Cologne: occupation of the Barmer Block housing estate, 2006
Jan 10 2007 17:10
#5
As far as I know OCAP is still going, although not like they were back in there peak about 5 years ago.
I have worked directly with OCAP miliants for many years, and worked on an ontario common front (provincial ocap support network) homeless village, so I will do the best I can to answer some of these questions.
Drugs, Alcohol and mental ilness are going to be big issues.
At the village I worked on (empty land being projected for condo onstruction occupied by about 50 people, mostly homeless, in Kingston, Ontario) the issue of drugs and alcohol was dealt with in a colleciive meeting of all people involved in the squat. I think the eventual descision was, no drug use on site, but i think we allowed for limited alcohol.
It has to be agreed on collectively or it wont work.
You can use the argument that drugs on site are a huge security risk, the cops may crack down ect.
asside from that, people who arnt really into the project will just hang out and get fucked up. Im of the opinion that you have to be a bit selective in who can participate, especially on an initial small project. The requirement is pretty simple, let people decide for themselves, if your in you have to participate, meetings, chores ect.
This will scare off most people who are just there to hang out or party.
In the big pblic squat acyion that happened here in Montreal, Police used to just dump off drifters they found, with the hopes that shit would get out of controll, to a degree it worked, people who had no real interest in the project just came to hang out.
Remember, you want to organise an action not just charity, dont get too selective, but homeless people are capable of making solid political descisions, especially if it affects them personally. But like anyone else, they have to be a bit motivated to be involved.
Making links with the surrounding community is essential, and especially with the montreal case this was a big mistake we made. Face to face outreach is key. Let the neighbors know what you up too. Invite them to come by and check out what your doing (this will only work if you got your shit togeather a bit and actually have a semi inspiring working project to show off). Alot of working class folks in the hood we were in were just a bit reentfull that they had to work so hard for what they had ( lived in the hood not at the squat) but all these people were just moving in and living for free in this nice big building with a garden and shit. If you can tie any services you might develope into the community this will help, a garden is a good example and worked well at both the montreal squat and the Kingston tent city.
I will try and get some nefac/ocap folks to post on this site and better answer some more of your questions.
Jan 10 2007 17:19
#6
OCAP is still going and it appears quite strongly at that. A glance at its website would verify that. While the Special Diets campiagn gained massive momentum last year and has abated due to the state closing the loop hole it was exploiting there are significant evidence of growth. For example there has been the establishment of OCAP Women of Etobicoke which is involved in organising the Somali community in a Toronto Suburb and more recently the setting up of a disability action group called Quiet Riot. The groups success probably lay in its origins in a wave of union mobilisation against Liberal cut backs. Such a momentum would be very hard to build from simply squatting a building. But maybe not. The Punching Out Collective were meant to be quite involved in OCAP so I'm sure if there's any Canadiam lurkers they can fill us in.
Jan 10 2007 17:42
#7
One thing I have noticed about OCAP is a tendency to sensationalise the squatter aspect. This isn't to say it isn't good work, the Woodwards Squat in Vancouver, and rebelworker's example from Montreal are good actions. However what I think the best work they do are things like the special diet campaign, and their direct action casework. These projects build links with the broader community, some of their tenants organising is really interesting too.
As well the campaign around the metropolitain hotel is a good one to look at when dealing with a sell out labour bureacracy often the best thing you can do in a situation like this is to bring what is happening to light.
Jan 10 2007 18:49
#8
Still with the wanton anarchist attraction to squatting, its always good to have OCAP there as a pointer that it can be done in a political fashion without falling into the social centre as outreach trap. 'Fight to win' is a great organising slogan as well.
Jan 11 2007 16:24
#9
Hey folks,
Thanks loads thats all really interesting! Ill mull it over and check out the links, and see if I can end up doing something practical round our way with it.
Just a note, in terms of 'being selective' Im assuming you gotta have enough people who are tough enough to enforce exclusion on anyone who aint playing by the rules? Or do you just mean, trying not to invite those people to be involved in the first place?
Cheers!
Jan 14 2007 18:00
#10
I've been thinking a lot about the arguments we had a while back about paid organisers and I was wondering what people think about OCAP's use of paid organisers? From the information that I have OCAP has at least three paid organisers, I don't know what their relation to the broader organisation is, however I believe these people are permanent and are obviously paid quite modestly.
A lot of the work they do is the Direct Action Casework where they use direct actions, like demonstrations at imigration offices and welfare offices, to try and win concessions at the lower end of the social services. From what I understand it is quite effective in Ontario.
Having said that I can understand that navigating the Welfare bureacracy is probably pretty time consuming, in essence their role is almost the same as a shop stewards in relation to the contract, and probably entails some of the same problems.
So my question is: would what OCAP is doing right now be feasible without full time paid staff? If so, how would one organise it? And if not, does the presence of paid full time staff seriously undermine the potential of this group for radical change?
Jan 14 2007 18:51
#11
EdmontonWobbly wrote:
As well the campaign around the metropolitain hotel is a good one to look at when dealing with a sell out labour bureacracy often the best thing you can do in a situation like this is to bring what is happening to light.
this is crap and you know it.
Local 75 has been turned around for years, and OCAP is distracting from the city wide fight around hotels trying to box the union into a single hotel fight. because as leftist they think they know better how to fight the multinational hotel industry....one hotel at a time.
Jan 15 2007 01:51
#12
...Post Deleted by Author...
Fuck it I'm gonna be civil.
So anyways I'm curious what folks think about the question of OCAP and paid staff?
Jan 15 2007 03:05
#13
throwhen wrote:
EdmontonWobbly wrote:
As well the campaign around the metropolitain hotel is a good one to look at when dealing with a sell out labour bureacracy often the best thing you can do in a situation like this is to bring what is happening to light.this is crap and you know it.
Local 75 has been turned around for years, and OCAP is distracting from the city wide fight around hotels trying to box the union into a single hotel fight. because as leftist they think they know better how to fight the multinational hotel industry....one hotel at a time.
You're aren't exactly correct. If HERE was fixing the very real problems that exist between those workers and the local then it wouldn't have given an opening for the intrepid OCAP to hijack the citywide campaign on a single issue. Clean your house before blaming the dirt on guests.
Jan 15 2007 03:23
#14
thugarchist wrote:
throwhen wrote:
EdmontonWobbly wrote:
As well the campaign around the metropolitain hotel is a good one to look at when dealing with a sell out labour bureacracy often the best thing you can do in a situation like this is to bring what is happening to light.this is crap and you know it.
Local 75 has been turned around for years, and OCAP is distracting from the city wide fight around hotels trying to box the union into a single hotel fight. because as leftist they think they know better how to fight the multinational hotel industry....one hotel at a time.You're aren't exactly correct. If HERE was fixing the very real problems that exist between those workers and the local then it wouldn't have given an opening for the intrepid OCAP to hijack the citywide campaign on a single issue. Clean your house before blaming the dirt on guests.
i'm not saying there is no abuse in the hotel. i'm not saying it perfect or even good in that hotel.
my point is that it is an example of OCAP failing to see the forest through the trees.
For the last ten years our nationwide union has been planning and organizing over 100000 hotel workers for a nationwide strike against the major chains which would and did have the effect of lifting up all hotel workers. that meant resources had to be put in places where they could be maximized. OCAP isn't involved and doesn't care about a continental wide fight. It's demand was that the union put in massive resources into a single, small, non-chain hotel when there was no way to have that fight.
it organized workers under false pretenses, that just standing up to their individual boss would fix things. And ignored the reality of the multinational industry.
i'm sure there are problems, my point is that OCAP organized a single hotel against the union. Where 600 had a huge fight this year coordinated by the union and winning.
It's a single hotel and it's been going on for three years, and i haven't heard anything from OCAP about it in two years.
Jan 15 2007 03:33
#15
throwhen wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
throwhen wrote:
EdmontonWobbly wrote:
As well the campaign around the metropolitain hotel is a good one to look at when dealing with a sell out labour bureacracy often the best thing you can do in a situation like this is to bring what is happening to light.this is crap and you know it.
Local 75 has been turned around for years, and OCAP is distracting from the city wide fight around hotels trying to box the union into a single hotel fight. because as leftist they think they know better how to fight the multinational hotel industry....one hotel at a time.You're aren't exactly correct. If HERE was fixing the very real problems that exist between those workers and the local then it wouldn't have given an opening for the intrepid OCAP to hijack the citywide campaign on a single issue. Clean your house before blaming the dirt on guests.
i'm not saying there is no abuse in the hotel. i'm not saying it perfect or even good in that hotel.
my point is that it is an example of OCAP failing to see the forest through the trees.
For the last ten years our nationwide union has been planning and organizing over 100000 hotel workers for a nationwide strike against the major chains which would and did have the effect of lifting up all hotel workers. that meant resources had to be put in places where they could be maximized. OCAP isn't involved and doesn't care about a continental wide fight. It's demand was that the union put in massive resources into a single, small, non-chain hotel when there was no way to have that fight.
it organized workers under false pretenses, that just standing up to their individual boss would fix things. And ignored the reality of the multinational industry.
i'm sure there are problems, my point is that OCAP organized a single hotel against the union. Where 600 had a huge fight this year coordinated by the union and winning.
It's a single hotel and it's been going on for three years, and i haven't heard anything from OCAP about it in two years.
I'm not disagreeing with what happened. What I'm saying is the union has an obligation to both do right by its members and be practical about solving problems that arise on the local level.
Jan 15 2007 03:38
#16
I understand that.
However, leftists like on this try and take this example and say that it represents all shops or the entire local or international union.
Which is crap.
And leave out the fact that HERE does take on the boss and had the first nationwide coordinate strike plan in any industry in over forty years.
I think that's a relevent point.
Jan 15 2007 03:43
#17
throwhen wrote:
I understand that.However, leftists like on this try and take this example and say that it represents all shops or the entire local or international union.
Which is crap.
And leave out the fact that HERE does take on the boss and had the first nationwide coordinate strike plan in any industry in over forty years.
I think that's a relevent point.
I agree. I'm just saying you can't blame outsiders for stepping in when y'all fucked up. They never would have had the ability to muck shit up if y'all had just simply fixwd the problem. Would have taken a 2 person team. Could of done it in 3 months.
Jan 15 2007 04:06
#18
is it even still going on?
the website hasn't been updated in two years
Jan 15 2007 04:08
#19
Nothing has been updated since may 2004, and no news has been posted since valentines day 2005.
Check out http://www.ocap.ca/
This and loads more welfare related links here:
http://www.geocities.com/ncajsa/