Political-Economic Dual Carding...

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syndicalist
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May 12 2011 18:21

Nate, if I understood what your question was from the begining, I would've answred it from the start.

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klas batalo
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May 12 2011 23:42
SolFed wrote:
In a workplace with a recognised TUC union, an SF member would join the union but promote an anarcho-syndicalist strategy. This would involve organising workplace assemblies to make collective decisions on workplace issues. However, workers will still be likely to hold union cards here to avoid splits in the workplace between union members and non-union members.

Like Nate I mostly an interested in hearing SolFedders' opinions on dual organization. Like Syndicalist said earlier I see the 1st part of their strategy as essentially being the same as the dual organizational parts of the WSA's approach (working within AFL-CIO/CtW unions but pushing a rank and file self-managed "anarcho-syndicalist" opposition)

syndicalist
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May 13 2011 00:32

Solfed states:

Quote:
"We need a three-pronged approach to the business of actually setting up an independent organisation at work.

In a workplace with a recognised TUC union, an SF member would join the union but promote an anarcho-syndicalist strategy. This would involve organising workplace assemblies to make collective decisions on workplace issues. However, workers will still be likely to hold union cards here to avoid splits in the workplace between union members and non-union members.

In a non-unionised workplace, independent unions, based on the principle of collective decision-making, should be set up wherever possible.

In a non-unionised workplace, that is difficult to organise due to a high turnover of staff or a large number of temps, we should just call workers assemblies when a dispute arises.

SF members will also undertake anarcho-syndicalist propaganda work in each scenario."

WSA states (in part):

Quote:
To transform the American labor movement, we support efforts to build new self-managed unions independent* of the AFL-CIO and Change to Win unions in situations where this makes strategic sense. At the same time, we cannot hope to play a role in many workers struggles, to put forth our ideas and our program, if we remain aloof and abstain from them simply because many of them take place within the AFL-CIO or Change to Win unions. So long as workers struggles are organized through these unions, we participate in those unions and their struggles.

We also support the building of autonomous rank-and-file movements in the AFL-CIO and Change to Win unions, independent of the bureaucracy. The sort of rank-and-file opposition movements that we support should not aim at merely electing a different leadership, but should aim at changing the union into a social movement based on mass participation and member control.

For unions to be self-managing, this starts with the importance of the general meetings of the members to make decisions. To prevent the organization becoming dependent on a small number of people, executive committee posts should have term limits. This needs to be combined with a systematic approach to training members in all the tasks needed in running a union.
...

Genuine self-management of a union goes beyond the formal structure and also depends on active participation and education of members.

* This has generally, though not exclusively, means the IWW.

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klas batalo
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May 13 2011 00:35
Tommy Ascaso wrote:
Personally I've never been in a union and there isn't a history of workplace organising in the industry I'm in. The only thing I'm thinking about is how I can organise collective direct action over collective grievances, there isn't any point in building up a reformist union as cover.

Same here. I think it is more about fighting where we stand, and if that happens to be a union shop, then so be it. Otherwise might as well start off good from the get go.

syndicalist
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May 13 2011 01:18

Thanks Jim, I'll drop off after this.

Quote:
I imagine that dropping the line about independent unions will come up.

Dropping them in favor of?

Edit: I just read Jim's comment below, which immediately made me think about this other Libcom discussion: http://libcom.org/forums/organise/anarcho-syndicalists-britain-sf-or-iww-10052011

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Aug 28 2012 19:52

Sorry to bring up an old thread but it got me thinking.

There seem to actually be more IWW members in the trade unions that are dual carders than here actually are members of anarchist political organizations in the trade unions.

This isn't just obviously cause there is a difference between 200 people in political orgs and 2000 people in the IWW. I bet if you were actually able to do a proper study you'd find there would be a larger percentage of IWW members organizing within the trades, where as most in political orgs are just holding red cards or not in a union at all.

Just funny cause of the assumption usually that platformists, etc are mostly pro-trade unionism.

*edit* also I must point out that I think a lot of these folks maybe from 5+ years ago are no longer with such political organizations. the same drive to do "pragmatic" organizing, seemed to drive them out of such groups. the folks that do happen to be in trade unions now seem to often just be there cause that is what they do for work, not because they are active organizers at their workplaces, other than informal stuff, so no coherent strategy. this is mostly from my experience of the last two years of CS/NEFAC, and WSA.

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Aug 28 2012 21:18

I'm not sure I agree in terms of percentages - not all IWW dual carders are organizing as dual carders, a lot of them are exactly what you describe for people in anarchist organizations. I'd want to see some actual numbers on that.

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Aug 29 2012 04:14

Me too I guess. Mostly sorta thinking out loud. I actually sorta agree. I think the IWW and anarchist political orgs don't have a strategy for how to interact with the trade unions really at all, or do organizing within them, etc.

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Aug 29 2012 21:40

Totally agreed. In a way, dual card IWWs don't exist as a constituency. I don't think anyone even really knows how many they are, where they work, who they are, what they're doing, what they want, etc. There are local groups/branches with cool stuff going on but over all I don't know that there's much going organization-wide. (I'd like to be wrong about that.) It'd be great if someone organized the dual carders to kick off an organization-wide process of decision-making and so on among the dual carders. Personally I think a decent early step would be to get all the dual carders to attend an organizer training, if they will, then a later step would be to collect experiences on that with the aim of writing a supplemental training for dual carders to go through after the initial training for the bits that may be dual-card specific. (I think generally that's probly a good way to go for any group who has/thinks it has unique enough experiences to warrant a specific training - have the regular training be the foundation for it, so that they mix more with other members.)

syndicalist
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Aug 29 2012 23:10

-----

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Nate
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Aug 30 2012 04:10

dude! hey! you fell asleep at your keyboard again!

redsdisease
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Aug 30 2012 05:39
Nate wrote:
Personally I think a decent early step would be to get all the dual carders to attend an organizer training, if they will, then a later step would be to collect experiences on that with the aim of writing a supplemental training for dual carders to go through after the initial training for the bits that may be dual-card specific. (I think generally that's probly a good way to go for any group who has/thinks it has unique enough experiences to warrant a specific training - have the regular training be the foundation for it, so that they mix more with other members.)

For some reason, I believed that I had read several times on here that there were folks working a OT 102 that was basically this same idea. I thought that was a really good idea and was excited for it to come out.

syndicalist
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Aug 30 2012 13:05
syndicalist wrote:
-----

This is what I deleted. Just felt a little wierd about the contribution. Afterall, I'm new again to the IWW, not active and, well, prolly had no place in makling a posting. But here it is:

Nate wrote:
Totally agreed. In a way, dual card IWWs don't exist as a
constituency. I don't think anyone even really knows how many they
are, where they work, who they are, what they're doing, what they
want, etc. There are local groups/branches with cool stuff going on
but over all I don't know that there's much going organization-wide.
(I'd like to be wrong about that.) It'd be great if someone organized
the dual carders to kick off an organization-wide process of
decision-making and so on among the dual carders. Personally I think a
decent early step would be to get all the dual carders to attend an
organizer training, if they will, then a later step would be to
collect experiences on that with the aim of writing a supplemental
training for dual carders to go through after the initial training for
the bits that may be dual-card specific. (I think generally that's
probly a good way to go for any group who has/thinks it has unique
enough experiences to warrant a specific training - have the regular
training be the foundation for it, so that they mix more with other
members.)

FWITW ...... when I recently rejoined, I subscribed to the dual card
list....only to find that no one posted in years and it was very
dormant. I was partcularly interested to see how current Wobs carry
out their duality....as most of my experiance has been in trade
unions.....and how, my first round of IWW membership, we were scorched
for being dual members. So if the numbers are there, it would be
valuable for dual carders to share war stories, etc. And, I would
suspect, might be helpful the next time there's another Wisconsin type
situ.

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Nate
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Aug 30 2012 20:11

Yeah I agree.