Spanish names, Sabate, etc.

Steven. ""Best hair at Unison conference""
Posts: 1854 Joined: 27-06-06 Location: London
Submitted by Steven. on 22 December, 2006 - 14:35.

I have a question about the biographies of spaniards in our library.

We have bios of the 3 sabate brothers. At the moment they're filed under L for Llopart, Manuel Sabate but maybe they and other spanish people should be filed under their middle names instead, e.g. - Sabate Llopart, Manuel

Does anyone know which is the correct way? Cos it seems they're commonly known by just their first two names...

madashell "KSW, LOL"
Posts: 3112 Joined: 19-06-06 Location: Merseyside
22 December, 2006 - 14:57

IIRC, the convention is that the Father's name is second, the Mother's name is third, with the third name (rather than the middle name) being ommitted when you're being brief.

So I suppose "2nd name 3rd name, 1st name" makes most sense.

Steven. ""Best hair at Unison conference""
Posts: 1854 Joined: 27-06-06 Location: London
22 December, 2006 - 14:59
madashell wrote:
So I suppose "2nd name 3rd name, 1st name" makes most sense.

yeah that's what i just did with our new one:
http://libcom.org/history/perez-navarro-joaquin-1907-2006

i'll go back through and fix some old ones at some point...

btw anyone know if he was def born in '07?

Wobbly Preacher
Posts: 97 Joined: 06-11-06 Location: Cleveland, OH
22 December, 2006 - 15:24

This is a slightly off topic question but I noticed his obitary lists him as the last surviving member of the Friends of Durruti group. This causes me to wonder if anyone has an idea of approximately anarchist vets of the Spanish Civil War are still alive. Does this CNT keep track of these sorts of things? The IWA? I know of only three myself but I am sure there many be quite a few others...

WeTheYouth "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - Tolkien"
Posts: 1867 Joined: 16-10-03 Location: Manchester
22 December, 2006 - 20:43
Wobbly Preacher wrote:
This is a slightly off topic question but I noticed his obitary lists him as the last surviving member of the Friends of Durruti group. This causes me to wonder if anyone has an idea of approximately anarchist vets of the Spanish Civil War are still alive. Does this CNT keep track of these sorts of things? The IWA? I know of only three myself but I am sure there many be quite a few others...

Im sure the CNT in exile in france keep track of these things, you should contact the IWA secretariat for info though.

Alan "Getting drunk, playing punk on a stylophone"
Posts: 5138 Joined: 28-09-04 Location: SE4
23 December, 2006 - 17:46

There's no real convention in English cos of the reasons Madashell gives. I don't really think it matters that much to be honest...as long as you're consistent.

Jack "Yes we can"
Posts: 10247 Joined: 22-09-03 Location: Brighton
23 December, 2006 - 17:59

Is consistent always gonna work? Wouldn't it make sense to do it in terms of the name they're best known for, even if that doesn't match?

revol68 ""Identity is a dream pathetic in its absurdity. You dream of being yourself when you've nothing better to do""
Posts: 17788 Joined: 23-02-04 Location: Belfast
23 December, 2006 - 18:02
Jack wrote:
Is consistent always gonna work? Wouldn't it make sense to do it in terms of the name they're best known for, even if that doesn't match?

yeah, the name they are most well known by is the best way.

madashell "KSW, LOL"
Posts: 3112 Joined: 19-06-06 Location: Merseyside
23 December, 2006 - 18:06

That's a fair point, actually, you wouldn't tag an article on Joe Hill as Haaglund, Joel.

Alan "Getting drunk, playing punk on a stylophone"
Posts: 5138 Joined: 28-09-04 Location: SE4
23 December, 2006 - 18:06

Oh right yeah, I forgot that we're talking A-List celebrities here.

Steven. ""Best hair at Unison conference""
Posts: 1854 Joined: 27-06-06 Location: London
23 December, 2006 - 18:07
Alan wrote:
Oh right yeah, I forgot that we're talking A-List celebrities here.

grin

but of the spaniards all that i can think of are best known by their middle name; like sabate.

Alan "Getting drunk, playing punk on a stylophone"
Posts: 5138 Joined: 28-09-04 Location: SE4
23 December, 2006 - 18:15

It's not really their middle name but nevermind. The easiest way to overcome this problem would be to do as Madashell suggests: 2nd name, 3rd name, 1st name. That then enables all 3 names to be prominent. In my experience though, any Hispanic person who's name becomes famous in Anglophone culture finds their name Anglicised with their 3rd name equalling their sole surname eg (Garcia) Lorca, (Garcia) Marquez etc.

Durruti "The Only Church That Illuminates Is A Burning Church"
Posts: 35 Joined: 25-12-06 Location: Almeria, Spain
27 December, 2006 - 14:47
madashell wrote:
IIRC, the convention is that the Father's name is second, the Mother's name is third, with the third name (rather than the middle name) being ommitted when you're being brief.

So I suppose "2nd name 3rd name, 1st name" makes most sense.

yep just like that my friend. 2nd, 3rd, 1st

but yes when they get known they are called by there second name.

revol68 ""Identity is a dream pathetic in its absurdity. You dream of being yourself when you've nothing better to do""
Posts: 17788 Joined: 23-02-04 Location: Belfast
27 December, 2006 - 14:51

just one question but why are the list of authors in the library are alphabetical by their first name? It's crazy!

Steven. ""Best hair at Unison conference""
Posts: 1854 Joined: 27-06-06 Location: London
27 December, 2006 - 14:56
revol68 wrote:
just one question but why are the list of authors in the library are alphabetical by their first name? It's crazy!

Yeah it can't be avoided at the moment as it's automated. We're changing the index soon though to just list the top 20 or so, by surname.

Durruti - cheers, I'll go through and fix the biographies over time.