Unpaid staff meeting?

That's what I thought! But the shift manager started painting this as if I were being avaricious, that I'm not willing to do anything to make the work environment better if I'm not getting paid, when this meeting is all about us "feeling better"; later, I was told that it's common practice in Israeli workplaces, or something.

My girlfriend. She's an office worker. It's usual to have mandatory unpaid worker "events", and also staff meetings.

I'm not sure, maybe I'm mischaracterizing it? It's allegedly mandatory, and it was set up by her with the store manager. On the other hand, it's supposedly going to be a meeting for us to openly talk about why things are shit.

I mean, fuck it, it hadn't even occured to the shift manager that it might be in her interest to get us paid for it, that's class collaboration right there. I heard her telling the store manager how there's no need for it to be paid, because it's just like if there was a party or something. I mean, for fuck's sake, she's just a shift manager, it means she's senior and sets up the shifts, she doesn't have any hiring/firing capabilities that I'm aware of.

On the other hand, I really don't feel very confident pushing stuff like that, most of the other people are more senior than I am and I hadn't heard any grief from them yet. I'll try and scope out what other people think about it tomorrow (she announced it right at the end of today's shift, so I didn't get to talk to anyone else). In one sense, it seems petty, but, I mean, my off-work time matters to me, I shouldn't be just handing it away like that, none of us should be, even if it's in order to make our workplace environment more pleasant.

Yeah. I'm slowly trying to get people pissed off about it, but I still haven't managed to talk to everyone about it undisturbed, and the most I'm getting is that people are upset at the inconvenience. Also, they've made it like it's some kind of potluck dinner thingie. But the sign says staff meeting and mandatory participation. It's probably illegal for them to do this without pay. One of the coworkers will be asking a lawyer friend.

I'm not in a union, practically the only ones around are Histadrut sections, and I'm not sure they have a section for book-sellers. Is there any point in becoming a dues-paying member of Histadrut for this? I mean, fuck it, seems kind of over-kill, this should be easy to handle using in-shop action.

I was pleased to learn from at least one other worker that they were upset at this, and were pleasantly surprised that someone else was opposed to it. But she's very new, so I'm not sure how much of a power base this is.

Well, here's how it is now:

I've talked to nearly everyone. Most of them agreed on two points:

1. They were upset at the fact that it was forced on them.
2. They thought the location was inconvenient.

Although they did understand my position, that this should be a paid affair, that's not what upset them. One relatively senior worker agreed with me wholeheartedly, another seemed to be more concerned with how this meeting will not resolve the issues that had prompted it in the first place.

Anyway, apparently some of the staff talked to the shift manager, who called me after work and said that this wasn't really a staff meeting, that I had misunderstood her sense of humor, that this was an initiative by her and another of the senior workers to meet on a non-work basis, because there were a lot of emotional issues to discuss, etc. It's going to be in her own house, everything is going to be arranged by her, and if I had a problem attending myself, then that I didn't have to. I told her that I think that it is important that we all meet, but that she went about this in a very wrong way, that if that's indeed what this is about, then it should have been a group decision, and I would rather talk to her about it tomorrow during the shift before we open (ha-ha - small victory for me, eh?) rather than on the phone. I'm also not sure I've made it clear that although it's not just about the money, it is about wages. Or something.

Now, I did draft a letter to management requesting payment for the affair. But during our discussion, the shift manager told me that she thought that if we were paid, we would not be able to express ourselves freely.

I'm not sure what to make of this. I think that I want to get her at least to remove those signs saying that it's mandatory, if it's unpaid, or that we should get management to pay us, either by requesting beforehand or afterwards. Moreover, if we discuss things unpaid in ways that wouldn't work when we are paid, then what's the point? I'm going to talk to her and to the store manager tomorrow. What do you all think?

Well, the worker who was mostly pissed off about how this meeting won't solve any problems called me, first of all to say that the worker who agreed with me whole-heartedly had made inquiries with someone in training, and the gist of it is that we might get paid for the meeting, and second of all to tell me that thinking of this as more of an off-work gathering of the staff will make me feel less pissed off. I told him that this isn't about me being pissed off, I am serene and calm, and that if this was supposed to be such a meeting, it shouldn't have been imposed from above like that. I mean, it's not like I'd set up a meeting, tell everyone that they have to come and invite the boss if we were going to get drinks, right?

He'll be at tomorrow's shift, so I'll get to talk to him about it personally.

I hope I'm not just overblowing stuff and distancing myself from the other workers over nothing..

I may be misusing terms, but she's a senior worker who sets up the shifts, and is one of about four employees who are in some way authorized to tell the other employees what to do, at least when the store manager isn't around. I'm not sure what it means to "line manage".

Anyway, I think I can give a promising update. We talked this morning, as promised, and she basically accepted everything I said. She apologized for having set the whole thing up as she did, and said she understands why I thought that it ought to be paid, and that it should be rescheduled if necessary to accommodate for the whole staff, etc. Turns out that she was so militant about it because she had wanted to initiate a meeting for a long time, and the main opposition was from the manager. She also said she understood why it was important for management to pay for the meeting.

I then read out a draft letter I had written to be addressed to management, asking to be paid for whichever meeting we decide upon. I drafted it on Tuesday, I think, and they (the shift manager and a couple of other seniors who heard it) liked my phrasing. We then took turns talking to the store manager, who said she thought we could probably only get two hour's regular pay and regular cover (i.e., not the 150% one would get for a Saturday), and that she basically wasn't really for it, but that she didn't oppose it, and that we should just ask the regional manager for the money on the phone on the phone.

Nevertheless, one problem is that the shift manager feels halfhearted about sending the letter out herself, because she feels that she's too closely associated with the store manager.

A new employee heard the whole letter business, and had some interesting points to raise: first, which is something I've figured out too, was that we fresh employees (he, the sympathetic one from earlier and myself) would be first up for being fired if management decided that the place was getting too militant. He thought that the way the letter was phrased would really hurt management's ego. The second is that, as a new employee, and since he was interviewed by the regional manager personally, that it would be more innocuous to start out by him just innocently calling her and asking what's going on with payment for the meeting. Maybe it will be easier to get it into official lines from there. Finally, he noted that what he thought was a much bigger issue was how our sales targets were being pushed to the roof, and that we should try struggling over that, since that comes down to basically slashing our bonuses.

Anyway, I think I can claim a small victory, and I'll have to see how this proceeds. I must say I was quite euphoric on hearing the shift manager change sides.. I wonder, though, whether I am being set up in some way.

Some folks might appreciate an update:

• After a lot of ping-ponging through the store manager, the regional manager, and some senior worker's contacts, we already got travel returns. I'm not sure if we got paid for the hours, since our salary is always one month off, but I should know around October 1st. Anyway, if they don't, I'd like to see what legal acrobatics they'd go into in justifying paying travel expenses for an off-the-clock meeting.
• The junior worker quit and found something better to do with her time.
• The "sensible" worker had been trying to get me into some kind of MLM scheme with his uncle, before going on an extended sick leave due to complications having to do with a back problem, which most of the staff does not believe is genuine (since he's been proving himself very unreliable throughout his tenure). I, for one, hope he's bluffing us, because if he's not, then his situation is really bad.
• Due to certain losses that are likely the result of cashier mismanagement rather than theft, we were given a lecture by the CSO about proper working relations, the fact that net loss in retail is actually magnified by at least 20 due to the way profits are calculated, and how basically our store manager is incompetent for not magically solving the problem of understaffing and inability to properly train workers in a high-stress shop.
• I hate holiday shopping from both sides. Also, it's quite clear to me now that we are, indeed, understaffed, since although today was the last day to shop before the holiday begins, and during most of the shift half of the store was taken up by a line of shoppers, the situation was a lot less stressful than in previous days, due to the fact that we actually had enough staff to handle the workload (including some temps taken in for the holidays).
• The shop is going to lose at least two senior workers in the next few months.

As for the meetings itself, it was a feel-good let's all get along kind of thing that included the store manager, so I didn't quite know how to raise class issues there (though I did comment that we should discuss problems that are the chain's fault, to which they replied that the meeting was about what we could do to make things better ). I really do want to get paid for that.

What's all this "Toyotist" business? It's been mentioned on the site before.

Naturally.

Well, I constantly try to raise issues, mostly slagging off management. I raised the issue of how fucked up it is for management to expect us to solve their problems, though I haven't managed to formulate it in a manner that's strictly proletarian (e. g., separating us from the store manager).

This isn't "my" thread, comrade.
I suppose the reason I feel free talking about the issue on an open forum is that the company I'm working for isn't very tech-savvy; I guess things would be different had I been working in IT.
I must thank you all for your posts to this thread.. I don't think I would have had the courage to pursue my grievance without them. It's telling of the primitive level of labor-related politics in Israel that I can't conceive of anywhere around here where I would have gotten the same kind of assistance. (I suppose I could have gotten some activist labor lawyer interested in going through the labor court system, but this is really not high profile; the only way to get any Histadrut help would have been joining up with them and becoming their stooge, and they're a lot more anxious to take credit than to actually do something, at least according to what I've seen and heard of them)

Well, a basic issue is that the store manager could get fired for cashier irregularities that result from wider chain mismanagement of the store. At least one coworker has suggested this as motivation for us to work ourselves on improving things: to help the store manager keep her job. I'm led to see analogies with "small" nationalism..

Our opening hours would seem crazy to you from the Isles: 9:30 to 22:00, 23:00 on Thursdays (in two shifts, of course). I doubt they'll be extending beyond that.

The regional manager occasionally occupies our back office, but, yeah, the store manager is the one we usually deal with directly.

Update: we got the pay slip for August, and WE GOT PAID! 175% as opposed to the regular 200% for Saturday work, but it's for 3.5 hours instead of the 2 I thought we would be paid for, so it becomes more.. I wonder if we should contest it.

I have other issues to raise, but I'll do it on a new thread. I'm flying over tomorrow, though, so maybe it's pointless to start now.

That could set up a precedent for 175% on Saturday staff meetings, though. But better not dwell on that. Next stage: fighting understaffing, however one goes about doing that.