'Where to strike next'.
Jan 13 2007
Comrades,
This is an appeal on behalf of Clydeside IWW GMB. We are holding a discussion at the next Glasgow Radical Independent Bookfair (Saturday 20th Jan) about workplace organising, entitled "where to strike next." We're aiming for a totally practical discussion around how we can/how we should move forward with an alternative labour strategy. We don't want it to just be an ideological discussion based on dead Russians (or American Wobblies), but we want to point to current real world examples of organising campaigns with empirical evidence for their success so that we can do some sort of data analysis, and have a serious productive discussion. There is likely to be a lot of libertarians and the like passing through the Bookfair on the day and so we want to play a role in building a serious dialogue on the subject of workplace organisation with all of them, as well as appealing for people to get involved in an IWW that is begin to organise seriously here.
We'd be really interested to speak to anyone who has been involved in an labour organising campaign recently, particularly if they can talk about the strengths and weaknesses; how many people it took to carry out the organising activities; how long did the organising drive last; how intensive it was; which industries were being targeted, and how that affected things; how many people did it end up organising etc. That applies to everyone who has been active in workplace organisation, not just to Wobblies and supporters. We're not going to be discussing whether or not the IWW is valid (we're an IWW GMB) so please leave discussions like that to other threads.
Some examples might be the corridor campaigns that comrades Wobblypreacher and Nate have been discussing, or Leicester IWW's activity around retail workers, handing out cards etc. But we want as wide a range of recent organising drives discussed at our talk as possible so that we can have a really decent discussion.
It would be good to discuss this on libcom but if anyone is concerned about anonymity or whatever PM me with info.
Cheers.
Jan 14 2007
#2
Thanks Devrim, that's much appreciated.
Jan 18 2007
#3
Hi guys this might not have been the most massively interesting thread going, but it was concretely organisational. Many more posters have devoted fuckloads of time to slagging off the WSM or arguing about CtW unions, or posting in libcmmunity, to getting embroiled in pointless circuitous arguments. I'm not just randomly asking questions, we're trying to get a bit of serious, empirically based, properly strategic discussion going at a radical bookfair, for the thoroughly practical task of organisation, both on the leafletting session the next day and for the future, to put the IWW in this city on a concretely organisational footing, doing the business.
The reason we're doing this at the radical independent bookfair (likely to be a repeat of last time, and be purely class focussed by the way) is that we want to discuss this amongst those already interested in workplace organisation, raise the bar of that discussion, and start to develop our networking capacity, all of which I actually think is somewhat important, and a non-sectarian approach.
I'd really appreciate if any of those who are perhaps more qualified to talk on the subject posted here, as Dev has done, as we really do need help with this before Saturday.
Jan 18 2007
#4
Dundee I'm not sure I understand the question, surely the best way of proceeding is to see what industries those people who are attending the meeting or displayed an interest are involved in and work from there. The way you've worded your post makes it sound like youse see your role as something of a Syndicalist A team.
Jan 18 2007
#5
revol68 wrote:
Syndicalist A team
which despite my disdain for substitutionalism, does get me rather excited 
'the A-S Team'
Jan 18 2007
#6
Joseph K. wrote:
revol68 wrote:
Syndicalist A teamwhich despite my disdain for substitutionalism, does get me rather excited
'the A-S Team'
Dundee isn't an anarcho syndicalist!!
To get back to the question I really do find this kind of thing rather baffling, I mean surely you should strike where it's relevant to you or folks involved with you or even you do solidarity work around sectors that are in struggle, no?
Jan 18 2007
#7
dundee, it might be worth contacting our very own General Secretary about this - he's been involved in workplace organising ever since he left school.
Jan 18 2007
#8
Can I say first of all I really don't want this to go off topic, but seen as Revol was decent enough not to have too much of a pop at me I'll reply.
Quote:
surely you should strike where it's relevant to you or folks involved with you or even you do solidarity work around sectors that are in struggle, no?
Yeah, it's how we do this tho. What is most effective? What is the likely timescales, contingencies? What is the best strategy? Where, in which industry/sector/workplace, is there the most room - political headspace - for our activities? I don't think it's just as simple as your making out, because that is not really an empirically based strategy, or even a methodology as it's much too general a statement. For one thing how would you make a results focussed assessment of how well you are doing, or otherwise review your activities if you don't have something to compare and contrast with?
I also don't think it's just a question of organising where you work already, as I think that's a bit voluntarist. I mean currently I'm a self-employed gardener and I do a bit of computer work for my Dad - hardly flashpoints of workers self-organisation. To my way of thinking that oughtn't to mean that I can't be involved in a social movement organisation such as the IWW which is aiming to form a mass organisation by organising in those workplaces where it doesn't have members. We are also doing what you're talking about tho, where we can, but that's not enough on its own to justify our existence. Our branch has a number of health workers, for example, and so we're be working on a local healthworkers bulltein as well as distribution of the UK one.
Jan 18 2007
#9
Quote:
dundee, it might be worth contacting our very own General Secretary about this - he's been involved in workplace organising ever since he left school.
IWW General Secretary-Treasurer Mark Damron? Got an email addy?
Jan 18 2007
#10
no, sorry, i mean our BIROC Secretary, but FW Damron might also be worth contacting. i'll PM you Adam's email and phone number (he's not very good at answering emails unfortunately!)
Jan 18 2007
#11
Quote:
I also don't think it's just a question of organising where you work already, as I think that's a bit voluntarist.
Dundee you don't really understand the term voluntarist do you?
As for empirical results and the like, well surely that is dependent on the struggle and workplace, and as I said surely that is further dependent on where youse have a presence and where there is a real potential for struggle, no? Basically I'm saying that all your empirical methodology come after and not before.
Jan 18 2007
#12
Quote:
Dundee you don't really understand the term voluntarist do you?
Don't be so patronising. We know you don't like me, you don't need to work it into every post.
Voluntarism: to act politically not according to a serious strategy or empirically justified organisational plan, based in reality but to just do things that you 'could do' or 'are capable of doing' in an unstructured way, largely because it makes you feel like you are 'doing something', even if that something might be doing more harm than good.
Jan 18 2007
#13
Dundee_United wrote:
Quote:
Dundee you don't really understand the term voluntarist do you?Don't be so patronising. We know you don't like me, you don't need to work it into every post.
Voluntarism: to act politically not according to a serious strategy or empirically justified organisational plan, based in reality but to just do things that you 'could do' or 'are capable of doing' in an unstructured way, largely because it makes you feel like you are 'doing something', even if that something might be doing more harm than good.
So basically, to go and sign up to some international and agree revolutionary platitudes with a few anarchists in a pub, because its easy, would be voluntarist as opposed to organising in your own workplace, which is really fucking hard if not impossible at times.
Sorry this makes me sound like i'm being a cunt for the sake of it, which isn't my intention, i'm just convinced that unless you are actually involved in organising in some way in your own workplace, then how can you go and ask other people to do it?
Plus 'where to strike next' sounds over the top and would really put me off but thats just an aesthetic point i guess.
Jan 18 2007
#14
Stop playing the victim, your definition of voluntarism is splendidly origional though, though the less generous might call it wrong.
Jan 18 2007
#15
So cantdo are you really sugesting that those of us outside the place of production have no real role to play? This would seem to be the corollary of what your saying, but i'm pretty sure it's not what you mean. Or should i pull out of the Starbucks campaign now as it would be politically dishonest.
Jan 18 2007
#16
Have a look at www.prol-position.net for european perpective
Jan 18 2007
#17
Jason Cortez wrote:
So cantdo are you really sugesting that those of us outside the place of production have no real role to play? This would seem to be the corollary of what your saying, but i'm pretty sure it's not what you mean. Or should i pull out of the Starbucks campaign now as it would be politically dishonest.
Obviously if you don't happen to work, then you can't be involved in your own workplace struggle, and so therefore obviosuly it doesn't preclude you from suporting other struggles, although obviously its hard to have much impact as an individual. I didn't mean it as a catch-all concrete rule or something, it just seems to be a sort of sensible guideline.
I mean say you were involved in a campaign against a tax, urged people not to pay, but paid it yourself, its hardly going to look good is it. Same thing if you work and do nothing in your workpalce, but urge others to strike, then it doesn't look good and has some serious practical drawbacks.
I'm not that keen on the way the starbucks campaign is going in general actually, (not anything to do with you i might hasten to add) but thats another thread i suppose.
Jan 18 2007
#18
revol68 wrote:
I mean surely you should strike where it's relevant to you or folks involved with you or even you do solidarity work around sectors that are in struggle, no?
I agree. But to what extent can you encourage other people to take more of active and collective interest in workplace disputes - or their creation, despite not being (necessarily) directly involved and without being the 'outside influence'? Or is it only down to the spontaneity of their potential individual struggles?
cantdocartwheels wrote:
I'm not that keen on the way the starbucks campaign is going in general actually, (not anything to do with you i might hasten to add) but thats another thread i suppose.
It'd be interesting to hear your criticisms because it's pretty much the only thing as far as I can see going for UK Wobblies at the moment and a model for how the organisation as a whole acts now and in the future. Of course, you'd have to bear in mind that it's only a start.
Jan 18 2007
#19
volin wrote:
Quote:
I'm not that keen on the way the starbucks campaign is going in general actually, (not anything to do with you i might hasten to add) but thats another thread i suppose.It'd be interesting to hear your criticisms because it's pretty much the only thing as far as I can see going for UK Wobblies at the moment and a model for how the organisation as a whole acts now and in the future. Of course, you'd have to bear in mind that it's only a start.
Sorry I was talking more specifically to jason about what SLSF were doing atm as regards solidarity actions not the wobbly campaign in the US itself.
In terms of the uk in general, without getting drawn into a huge slugging match i'd just ask what the actual aim of the campaign is?
Jan 18 2007
#20
Quote:
Sorry this makes me sound like i'm being a cunt for the sake of it, which isn't my intention, i'm just convinced that unless you are actually involved in organising in some way in your own workplace, then how can you go and ask other people to do it?
Yeah, I do know what you mean, and I didn't take it that way but I do organise where I live, and my long term goal is to get a secondary co-op of tradesmen going as part of a workplace strategy but that is a long way off, altho I am serious about it.
As far as the thing the way is pitched well it's not my title and I'm not really heavily concerned about the name of the workshop as such, plus some radical types do go for the sensationalist thing and it's aimed at politicos.
Jan 19 2007
#21
This thread is mental. The IWW always had wandering organisers, spreading the message and organisation to their fellow workers, riding the rails and so on. I really don't see the problem with helping other people to organise, or with encouraging them to do so. Next we'll be told that you should only distribute prop to your best friends or something.
Jan 19 2007
#22
cantdo wrote:
In terms of the uk in general, without getting drawn into a huge slugging match i'd just ask what the actual aim of the campaign is?
You don’t see a point in helping to raise a sort of militant self-awareness, getting a group of usually treated-like-crap, temporary workers to stand up for themselves and as part of a bigger collective acknowledging and defending their ‘rights’, pushing for pay increases, for longer breaks etc.? It’s not the aim itself that’s the point for debate (which bear in mind isn’t confined to Starbucks workers, or even coffee shop workers: http://www.baristasunited.org.uk/), surely? but the manner in which we try to bring this about. What’s the strengths and weaknesses of what’s been done so far? How do we avoid being the lefties ‘organising people’ and support them to ‘organise themselves’? And so on.
Moh Kohn wrote:
This thread is mental. The IWW always had wandering organisers, spreading the message and organisation to their fellow workers, riding the rails and so on. I really don't see the problem with helping other people to organise, or with encouraging them to do so. Next we'll be told that you should only distribute prop to your best friends or something.
Absolutely.
There seems to be a lot of flak from otherwise genuinely alright class strugglists over anything that's a bit more down-to-earth, that might achieve anything beyond 'analysing struggle' where it arises out of the blue.
Jan 19 2007
#23
Quote:
This thread is mental.
Yes. So far only Devrim has posted on-topic.
I'm quite disappointed, particularly given that we (IWW Clydeside) are to give a talk tomorrow and it won't be as good because so few people have contributed on-topic apart from Devrim.
I've been wondering if it was the way I phrased it (I know I have a tendency to come across really self-important on libcom)? It's certainly not the case that a number of comrades posting on libcom couldn't have contributed for want of experience.
Jan 19 2007
#24
I think this is a post on topic.
I spent 2 months working for a small workers' association, set up by an (odd, definitely not revolutionary) community alliance. Myself and one other person, with some back-up from paid staff, were organising with workers at a massive hotel in West London. Staff were largely immigrant, fair mix of with and without papers, split between Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, Latin American (mostly Brazilian). There was a very high turnover, almost everyone was agency (getting minimum wage or below), and very few people spoke English well - the 5 languages intimated earlier accounting for 95% of conversation between workers' in the hotel. Organisation and confidence could not have been lower. People were subject to serious stress, abuse, and living awful lives. Neither myself nor my co-organiser had any workplace organising experience.
In other words, as hard a workplace as it gets, and just the sort of place that urgently needs organisation and power.
We didn't have a whole lot of success, though did help a few workers get it together to do some basic campaigning and organising on the job. Very little in the way of concrete concessions (but some) were won by way of this, and some third party direct action.
Organising at lower intensity than during our time (because the organisation cannot afford salaries) goes on at the hotel. A very little was in place before we started, mostly from my co-organiser (who I believe John. has met?), who did another 6 weeks prior to the stint we did together. (We were both able to volunteer close to full time; in my case because I knew I had a paid job coming up at the end of the 2 months, and had managed to live cheap for a while beforehand.)
Our period of effort cannot broadly be evaluated as a success - though it was worthwhile, the best anyone was ever going to do at that time to help those people help themselves. We did not do any harm, we never promised anything we couldn't deliver, in terms of commitment, we made our low resource base clear. I am putting all this on record here because, if anyone is interested in doing this sort of organising, they should get in touch. We learned alot of hard lessons very quickly, and myself and my co-organiser would be more than willing to try to pass those on. I don't have time to write them out now.
This is obviously a story of organising from outside. My sense is that many people disdain this as crypto-Leninist in inspiration. Personally I think it's an entirely necessary (very different, and probably more difficult) skill-set for us to nail down.
Dundee - you've got my e-mail/# if you need more.
Jan 19 2007
#25
Thanks comrade, I'll email you directly (don't have your phone). Bizarrely I didn't actually have either... Jesus it's been a while. I did manage to dig it up tho (from someone else's email account).
I'm really interested in developing this discussion. Was this with the London Citizens or something like that?
Communication Worker Group
As I am feeling particularly well disposed to you at the moment, Dundee, here is a document that I promised John I would write a long time ago, and never got around to writing a conclusion for, so it is also free of left communist analysis.
It does concentrate a lot on the political factions involved, but I think that is an honest, very brief history of our group.
In some ways it is very different from what the IWW are proposing to do. I think that you are concentrating on organising drives in more marginal sectors where unions aren't so firmly entrenched while we were organising in what was at the time, and possibly still is, the most militant sector in the UK, and also a closed shop.
Anyway, I hope it is not too politically based, and maybe even has something that you may find useful in it.
I would be very happy to answer any questions relating to our activity as a group.
Devrim
http://libcom.org/library/brief-history-of-communication-worker-group