ACI and the IWA ???

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WeTheYouth
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Dec 29 2006 14:57
ACI and the IWA ???

What kind of relations do we hold with ACI?

http://www.acinterpro.org/

google translation

They seem to be neutral in the feuds between the IWA and those anarcho syndicalists outside of the IWA as they support the SAC, have joint days of action with CGT, SAC and CNTF but put the IWA site at the top of their links. Am i correct also that it is a group in protugal and does anyone know of what relations AIT-SP have with them?

WeTheYouth
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Dec 29 2006 14:59

Also how cool is there logo???

dublin dave
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Jan 1 2007 16:21

I´m not sure that the logo is cool. I´d say that it is old fashioned and represents a macho version of anarcho syndicalism.

WeTheYouth
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Jan 1 2007 16:50
dublin dave wrote:
I´n not actually sure that the logo is cool. I´d say yhat it is old fashioned and represents a macho version of anarcho syndicalism.

Yeah. But i still looks good.

dublin dave
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Jan 1 2007 17:01

I´d admit that it looks good in a retro sort of way. However is a white male worker the correct image for a modern anarcho syndicalist union?

WeTheYouth
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Jan 1 2007 17:25
dublin dave wrote:
I´d admit that it looks good in a retro sort of way. However is a white male worker the correct image for a modern anarcho syndicalist union?

True. We need to get some decent logos those.

syndicalist
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Jan 2 2007 04:36

I suspect there will be more anarcho-syndicalists out there in the years to come keeping in contact with IWA and non-IWA section's.

syndicalist
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Jan 9 2007 03:23
WeTheYouth wrote:
What kind of relations do we hold with ACI?

http://www.acinterpro.org/

google translation

They seem to be neutral in the feuds between the IWA and those anarcho syndicalists outside of the IWA as they support the SAC, have joint days of action with CGT, SAC and CNTF but put the IWA site at the top of their links. Am i correct also that it is a group in protugal and does anyone know of what relations AIT-SP have with them?

It is my understanding that no relations exist.

WeTheYouth
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Jan 9 2007 12:51
syndicalist wrote:
WeTheYouth wrote:
What kind of relations do we hold with ACI?

http://www.acinterpro.org/

google translation

They seem to be neutral in the feuds between the IWA and those anarcho syndicalists outside of the IWA as they support the SAC, have joint days of action with CGT, SAC and CNTF but put the IWA site at the top of their links. Am i correct also that it is a group in protugal and does anyone know of what relations AIT-SP have with them?

It is my understanding that no relations exist.

Thats unfortunate. Maybe if i get chance to go to portugal whilst on me travels next year ill try and find them.

rata
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Jan 9 2007 13:38
WeTheYouth wrote:
What kind of relations do we hold with ACI?

IWA-AIT Section in Portugal has following contact details.

AIT - SP
Apartado 50029
1701-001 Lisboa
PORTUGAL
Tel. +351217785462
E-mail: aitport@yahoo.com

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Bubbles
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Jan 9 2007 22:46
rata wrote:
WeTheYouth wrote:
What kind of relations do we hold with ACI?

IWA-AIT Section in Portugal has following contact details.

AIT - SP
Apartado 50029
1701-001 Lisboa
PORTUGAL
Tel. +351217785462
E-mail: aitport@yahoo.com

???

WeTheYouth
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Jan 10 2007 09:39
rata wrote:
WeTheYouth wrote:
What kind of relations do we hold with ACI?

IWA-AIT Section in Portugal has following contact details.

AIT - SP
Apartado 50029
1701-001 Lisboa
PORTUGAL
Tel. +351217785462
E-mail: aitport@yahoo.com

I know that. What was the point in posting it up, i wasnt asking for the contact details of our section, i wondering who ACI were. Maybe you know who they are?

Salvoechea
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Jan 10 2007 11:31

ACI began as a development of the FESAL-E contacts. AFAIK FESAL is a European alternative education network, proposed by the italian Unicobas (with CNT-F-vignoles, CGT-E, SAC, SUD...). In Portugal there wasn't any libertarian Union [IWA section cannot be consider a proper union], so the group of people who were interested in FESAL began to meet and coordinate. So, ACI began to exist.

I don't know which kind of relatioships there're between ACI and IWA portuguese section.

rata
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Jan 10 2007 12:35
WeTheYouth wrote:
I know that. What was the point in posting it up, i wasnt asking for the contact details of our section, i wondering who ACI were.

As I understood, you are member of an IWA Section. When you asked what are "our" relations with ACI, I understood that you are asking about IWA relations with ACI. This is why I sent contact of Portuguese section, since all contact with groups and organizations which are in the countries which already have IWA Section are going through the Section in that country. So IWA can not have any relations with ACI. Only AIT-SP can. As far as I know AIT-SP doesn't have contacts with them. I might be wrong, though...

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JDMF
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Jan 10 2007 12:43

Know your place WTY!

rata
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Jan 10 2007 12:58

Just to make it clear, when I said:

rata wrote:
So IWA can not have any relations with ACI.

I ment IWA officially, as IWA Secretariat, or other IWA Sections. Of course I wasn't refering to individuals from IWA Sections...

JDMF wrote:
Know your place WTY!

U 2 you vegan hooligan bastard =;>>

WeTheYouth
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Jan 17 2007 11:05
Salvoechea wrote:
ACI began as a development of the FESAL-E contacts. AFAIK FESAL is a European alternative education network, proposed by the italian Unicobas (with CNT-F-vignoles, CGT-E, SAC, SUD...). In Portugal there wasn't any libertarian Union [IWA section cannot be consider a proper union], so the group of people who were interested in FESAL began to meet and coordinate. So, ACI began to exist.

I don't know which kind of relatioships there're between ACI and IWA portuguese section.

Thanks, do you know if they are a union or still too small to become a proeper union?

syndicalist
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Jan 18 2007 14:35
WeTheYouth wrote:

Thanks, do you know if they are a union or still too small to become a proeper union?

My understanding is that they've formed or are forming an educational workers union. See MANIFESTO PELA LIBERDADE SINDICAL http://www.acinterpro.org/ for current information.

In regards to any relationship between them and AIT-Portugal, no, there are none. I suspect it is for the usual reasons.

NenoVasco
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Feb 1 2007 17:08

There are no oficial realtions between ACI and AIT-SP. Of course, as anarchist movemntent is so diminute in Portugal we all know each other and some of their members have atended demonstrations organised by us. They are also a small group and not a "proper union". You cannot find any "proper" indepent unions in Portugal outside CGTP and UGT (the two and only major unions conected to Communist Party and Socialist Party). As far as I know, the only relation to actual syndicalist practics that they have is because some of there members are (or were) in CGTP. We at AIT-SP are very suspicious of this people, as their are pure syndicalists, and quite reformists, and thy are quite against the orientation of IWA. Also, the main person behind ACI, Manuel Baptista tends to give an oversized idea of his groups and initiatives that normally doesn't correspond to reality. Some months ago he was announcing FESAL-Portugal had a students union in Coimbra when, in reality, this students just had contacted FESAL for information and were not insterested in entering. Also, some years ago, he gave an interview to SAC newspaper saying anarchists in Portugal had organised a 2000 anarchists mayday demonstration (for anyone who knows anarchism in Portugal this is ridicule, not even a 200 anarchist demo we could organise). So always be suspicious about what you hear from ACI.
For more information about Portugal contact AIT-SP.
Solidarity!

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Steven.
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Feb 1 2007 17:12

thanks for the information NenoVasco, interesting stuff. please stay around to let us know more about workers struggle and stuff in portugal!

Flint
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Feb 1 2007 17:18
WeTheYouth
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Feb 2 2007 20:25
NenoVasco wrote:
There are no oficial realtions between ACI and AIT-SP. Of course, as anarchist movemntent is so diminute in Portugal we all know each other and some of their members have atended demonstrations organised by us. They are also a small group and not a "proper union". You cannot find any "proper" indepent unions in Portugal outside CGTP and UGT (the two and only major unions conected to Communist Party and Socialist Party). As far as I know, the only relation to actual syndicalist practics that they have is because some of there members are (or were) in CGTP. We at AIT-SP are very suspicious of this people, as their are pure syndicalists, and quite reformists, and thy are quite against the orientation of IWA. Also, the main person behind ACI, Manuel Baptista tends to give an oversized idea of his groups and initiatives that normally doesn't correspond to reality. Some months ago he was announcing FESAL-Portugal had a students union in Coimbra when, in reality, this students just had contacted FESAL for information and were not insterested in entering. Also, some years ago, he gave an interview to SAC newspaper saying anarchists in Portugal had organised a 2000 anarchists mayday demonstration (for anyone who knows anarchism in Portugal this is ridicule, not even a 200 anarchist demo we could organise). So always be suspicious about what you hear from ACI.
For more information about Portugal contact AIT-SP.
Solidarity!

Thanks.

miguel.negrao
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Apr 11 2007 23:00

Hello

I'm a member of ACInterpro and I happend to come by this post.

Our website is www.acinterpro.org but at the moment it doesn't have any information in english. We are working on a new site that will have an english section.

We are indeed neutral regarding the IWA and are not affiliated with it.

Our project is to build a revolutionary union in Portugal. Last year we began the legal process and our statutes were published in the ministry of work paper, making us a legal and reckognied union. Unfortunally the portuguese state initated a legal action agaist us, and without proper legal counseling available to us we chose not to fight the action as it would be too costly.
Still we continue to organize ourselves, having recently created a eduction sector, and slowly more people enter our organization.

funny you mention the fact that the logo is old fashioned and maybe macho looking... I told the same thing to my comrades. smile

Thanks for you interest

Miguel Negrão

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Bubbles
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Apr 12 2007 00:10

Glad to have you here Miguel Negrão!!!

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Steven.
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Apr 12 2007 15:43

yeah thanks for the info Miguel!

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JoeMaguire
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Apr 12 2007 16:45

Greetings Miguel, but I was wondering isnt the following curious....

Quote:
Last year we began the legal process and our statutes were published in the ministry of work paper, making us a legal and reckognied union.

Why go to the effort of allowing the state to recognise you?

miguel.negrao
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Apr 12 2007 18:35

That is a good question, one I asked myself sometime ago.

it is true that on the long run the objective is to end the state and construct a new socienty organized by itself in selfmanagement. But until that day comes we live in a state and have to act in it. Now if our action is made ilegal by the state that doesn't mean we will stop it, when strikes were illegal the unions made the stikes anyway, it was their weapon. But if we can do our work with more freedom, by virtue of not being illegal, and if that statue exists without limiting our action then i think we should work within the legal framework. That being said, if at certain situaion it arrises that a certain action we want to take, like occupying a factory, is illegal that shouldn't in any way stop us from doing it if we think is is a good stratagy. More concretly being a legalized union gives you immediattly certain "rights", like organizing meeting in the workplace, calling a strike, etc. It is true that it should be irrelevant if you are a legal union or not, in order to make a meeting or organize a strike, being a group of workers should suffice, but unfortunally that is not the case, and until we change that, it is fair easiear to work if we are a legal union.

I think the question here is of negative freedoms. The state prohibits by definition some freedoms, and something being legal makes it "ok" to do it in society, but first the state has to say that you can do it. Now the fact that the state says we have freedom of speech should not stop us from using freedom of speech, just because it was the state that said we could. We use freedom of speech because we want to. The same way just because we use the right to be a recognised union, doesn't mean we do it because the state allows it, we do it because it's our right, but if the state does allow it, it would be stupid not to use that right. If on the other hand the state didn't allow it , then we would certainly take the illegal route as the workers movements did in the 19th century. In fact at the moment we are probably not legalized and we continue our work as ever.

Miguel Negrão

petey
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Apr 12 2007 18:40

our first posts from portugal?

WeTheYouth
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Apr 12 2007 20:54

good to hear from an ACI comrade, good luck with setting up your unions, keep us up to date on how its going.

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JoeMaguire
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Apr 12 2007 21:05

Thanks, Im not sure I totally support your logic but thanks for the prompt response Miguel.

miguel.negrao
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Apr 17 2007 21:41

Thaks for the support, I will keep in touch.

Good Luck

Miguel Negrão