Accepted or Rejected?
Apr 23 2008
I had a discussion a while ago with another Syndicalist who made the comment that market Anarchists, Agorists and even possibly Anarcho-Capitalists would probably be welcomed if they ever turned up to a demonstration in order to participate. So my question is, would they? I know of groups of Agorists who are planning upcoming demonstrations in the US. I'm curious as to how they might be received. From those who I know that identify as Anarcho-Capitalists the feeling is that even if they ever showed up to such events, they'd be turned away and probably insulted. In fact I know market Anarchists who feel the same way.
Apr 23 2008
#2
I think some of the agorists may fit in, but not the Rothbardians.
Apr 24 2008
#3
What the hell is an agorist?
Apr 24 2008
#4
Someone who believes in the positive power of the market (agora in Greek) to influence social change and economic justice. In other words, an idiot.
Apr 24 2008
#5
Fairly sure they'd be unwelcome... although it would make an interesting addition to the ever growing anarcho-menagerie.
Apr 24 2008
#6
It would be nice to have the support, and some variety of opinion is good to have.
Apr 24 2008
#7
I can't speak for anyone else but I wouldn't turn them away... however, I think it's kind of a moot point because I honestly can't picture very many circumstances where they would find common cause with the libertarian left anyways.
the differences here aren't "just economic". these are completely irreconcilable world views.
Apr 24 2008
#8
pghwob wrote:
What the hell is an agorist?
I'm warning you, this is going to be painful:
http://libcom.org/forums/organise/looking-contributions-16032008
Look for posts from an "Elliot Parker" on this one:
http://libcom.org/forums/thought/prostitution-19102007
Apr 24 2008
#9
In response to RC,
The Anarchist FAQ is always my first goto:
http://www.spunk.org/texts/intro/faq/sp001547/secFcon.html
I know you don't consider yourself an anarcho-capitalist, but you've yet to convince me that markets don't pre-suppose the state, and are not objectively coercive, so I lump agorists right in with the anarcho-capitalists.
Apr 24 2008
#10
Quote:
I know of groups of Agorists who are planning upcoming demonstrations in the US.
Demonstrations against or in favor of what?
Apr 24 2008
#11
Those agorists sound worse than capitalists. What does one call fear of agorists? Agoraphobia is taken.
Apr 24 2008
#12
Agoristophobia. But what would be the term for contempt of agorists? Anticapitalist?
Apr 24 2008
#13
How would anybody turn somebody away from a demonstration? Personally, I've got better things to do on demos than go around interrogating people about their political beliefs. Also this:
tsi wrote:
It's kind of a moot point because I honestly can't picture very many circumstances where they would find common cause with the libertarian left anyways.
Apr 27 2008
#14
Quote:
Demonstrations against or in favor of what?
Honestly, I can't remember the details. I kinda breezed over the discussion without paying too much attention as I'm Australian and cannot really afford to up and go to America to partake in their activities. All I remember is that is has something to do with disrupting a republican get together.
Apr 27 2008
#15
Quote:
I know you don't consider yourself an anarcho-capitalist, but you've yet to convince me that markets don't pre-suppose the state, and are not objectively coercive, so I lump agorists right in with the anarcho-capitalists.
That is fair enough. Give me some time, allow me to work over your propositions and I'll come back with a better and definitely more coherent argument.
Apr 27 2008
#16
I partially ask this question because I've often heard in heated debates between self confessed Anarcho-Capitalists and Syndicalists/Socialists/Communists the comment by the latter group that, 'I've never met a Anarcho-Capitalist. Where are they? Why don't they turn up and participate in demonstrations?' Then, when I ask the Anarcho-Capitalist for his view of the question, generally he says that he wouldn't even bother introducing himself, let alone show up for a demonstration because he'd probably be abused.
May 1 2008
#17
Most likely they would be abused if they somehow found a reason to protest with the communists et al and showed up. Most demonstrations being what they are (a hodgepodge of loosely related messages all simultaneously preventing each other from being clearly heard), I wouldn't personally have any problem with them being there. Then again, given that most of the ancaps I've encountered in real life were spending their time campaigning for the ALP, I don't really see it happening to begin with.
May 1 2008
#18
"Anarcho-capitalists" are more commonly referred to as cunts. As others have said, we have nothing in common with them.
May 1 2008
#19
I think the fact that "anarcho-capitalists" sometimes act as if there actually was some common ground with the libertarian left (supposedly in virtue of the "anarcho" prefix) really just shows their ignorance about what anarchism actually is (& what capitalism actually is to boot).
May 2 2008
#20
RoyceChristian wrote:
I partially ask this question because I've often heard in heated debates between self confessed Anarcho-Capitalists and Syndicalists/Socialists/Communists the comment by the latter group that, 'I've never met a Anarcho-Capitalist. Where are they? Why don't they turn up and participate in demonstrations?' Then, when I ask the Anarcho-Capitalist for his view of the question, generally he says that he wouldn't even bother introducing himself, let alone show up for a demonstration because he'd probably be abused.
that's kinda odd... about all the Anarchists, at least that i've seen, know about Anarcho-Capitalists, and *revile* them. i certainly dont know of any Ancaps going out to demos or trying to get involved with an Anarchist organization, but it happens pretty frequently that the Ancaps approach Anarchists online over this or that, trying to get Anarchists as allies (though more-so tools, since the Ancaps always seem to want to get the Anarchists to make pro-capitalist concessions and i've certainly not heard of any of them say they'll support any activities which are socialistic in aim)... to which the Anarchists roundly respond "fuck off."
i'd imagine there'd be at least some hostility to Ancaps if they showed up during a demo which had Anarchists in it. i'm not sure how concerned other kinds of socialists are with them, to be honest. as for Agorists, i'm not sure if even too many Anarchists know what an Agorist is - although i (partly) followed the argument about it before so have an idea what it is, the name always makes me think of eco-stuff.
May 2 2008
#21
RoyceChristian wrote:
I had a discussion a while ago with another Syndicalist who made the comment that market Anarchists, Agorists and even possibly Anarcho-Capitalists would probably be welcomed if they ever turned up to a demonstration in order to participate. So my question is, would they? I know of groups of Agorists who are planning upcoming demonstrations in the US. I'm curious as to how they might be received. From those who I know that identify as Anarcho-Capitalists the feeling is that even if they ever showed up to such events, they'd be turned away and probably insulted. In fact I know market Anarchists who feel the same way.
Is their an agorist group called "Jason and the Agrorists"?
May 6 2008
#22
Quote:
Then, when I ask the Anarcho-Capitalist for his view of the question, generally he says that he wouldn't even bother introducing himself, let alone show up for a demonstration because he'd probably be abused.
And rightly so. Just because some smart ass slaps a prefix onto their tinpot ideology does not make them a common ally. "Anarcho"-capitalists are in no way searching for the same thing as anarchists, or even anyone vaguely on the left, no matter how much they claim that their ideals represent solutions to certain problems.
I don't think they would turn out, anyways. Most "anarcho"-capitalists, are voluntarist, meaning they believe essentially in things just kind of popping up one day. Most of them certainly don't believe in demonstrations of anykind, and are more aligned with the utopian socialists than anything, though more in the Ayn Rand/"Who is John Galt?" sort of a way.