More tedious "reverse racism" whining

90 posts / 0 new
Last post
meerov21
Offline
Joined: 14-08-13
Apr 25 2018 23:45

Steven.
no I do not, you are the one who needs to watch your behaviour and words, because libcom is a platform for workers who want a revolution against capitalism, racism and sexism. Not people who simply spout alt right talking points with no evidence

me
Also You are the person who censors my texts, now you have done it a second time, changing the title of the article. As far as I know, Laura Akay already accused you of censorship. Watch your behavior.

if you want to post racist shit like this which doesn't get edited, then post it on storm front instead. They won't edit your thread titles to make you look stupid, but we will.

I see. In that case, I will not talk to you, although I reserve the right to comment on your funny statements.

I'll just say a few very simple things. I use the comments of a well-known American-Russian-Israeli journalist (Jewish emigrant) in a major Russian newspaper and a sociological survey.

This person who continuously uses insults (though I did not insult him in any way), who censors my texts, giving them offensive headlines, and who has been repeatedly accused of censorship by different people, including the IWA Secretary Lora Akay, says that I, a journalist Michael Dorfman, and sociologists just lie or everything we said is a result of our fantasies.

I see no point in commenting on the words of such a person.

Fleur
Online
Joined: 21-02-12
Apr 26 2018 00:02

Of course you see no point of commenting, you have no credible argument or answers. You still owe RG an apology for that totally unwarranted accusation of anti-semitism.

Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
Offline
Joined: 14-01-04
Apr 26 2018 13:18

This thread has taken a quite shocking turn - seriously, welcome to dogpile central.

I have disagreements with some of what Meerov says (maybe, in part, due to issues related to language) but some of his criticisms of anti-oppression politics are nevertheless valid. However, the vitriol he's received in this thread, and referring to him as 'alt-right', etc, for being critical of certain elements of anti-oppression politics is reminiscent of the days when anyone who criticised the Soviet Union was an imperialist, a CIA stooge or a fascist. The responses here are probably more damning of the people making them - including whichever admin changed the title - than the person they are attacking. It's interesting (and disturbing) to see the changes over the last few years, since 'anti-oppression politics' became the big 'in' thing. It's just like watching a sub-Maoist sect on crack. Well done everyone.

radicalgraffiti wrote:
tbh shouting “How many Palestinians have you killed?”." at someone who has just said they came from Israel sounds like a nationalist statement rather than an anti-Semitic one

It may well be nationalist but it's also bog-standard anti-Semitism, and radicalgraffiti is acting as an apologist for it. On the issue of BME people holding meetings for BME people, I cannot see how any libertarian communist could have an issue with that as any oppressed group needs to self-organise. However, if it were the case that white or Jewish people were being evicted from a mixed communal space, then this smacks of reverse segregationism, more in the vein of Louis Farrakhan, and sure to play into the hands of the far right. Any serious anarchist communist should give that kind of nonsense short shrift. I do realise segregationism has long been an issue in the US but people who claim to be revolutionaries really shouldn't be supporting that kind of thing.

Mike Harman
Offline
Joined: 7-02-06
Apr 26 2018 13:38
Serge Forward wrote:
However, if it were the case that white or Jewish people were being evicted from a mixed communal space

What would you do if a white, jewish journalist from the Mail or Times turned up at an ACG meeting?

Fleur
Online
Joined: 21-02-12
Apr 26 2018 14:18

Ffs, no university demanded that the white students had to leave, it just didn't happen, we would all have heard about it if we did. For one thing these Ivy League colleges are so white you could get snow blind just hanging around them, so it would be a ghost town if this happened. Then the media would be all over it because bitching about students is the biggest non-story in the American press.Something like that would distract the media from even the latest Kardashian story. There would be pundits with opinions on every channel, counter demonstrations - which would get media interest, Jordan Peterson would have written a whole book about it and would be doing a campus tour to promote it as we speak. Then the ADL and B'nai B'rith would be on the scene. Social media would be ablaze, most likely the black students involved would be vilified and probably doxed. Back out in the real world, not Meerovland, if someone even so much as complains about campus racism the US media are all over it, trotting out people to defend the US education system against these things. It's just another manifestation of the media with it's head up it's ass about snowflake-coddled-identity politics riddled-feminist-LGBT rights wanting-antiracist commies that it seems to think is going on on US campuses. The fact that this particular event is not traceable in any other media source is very telling. Meanwhile actual racist threats and assaults have gone up. Go figure.

Some unknown journalist was asked to leave a meeting. I don't think it was unreasonable that students kicked a journo out, dollars to donuts they'd only go and write a hit piece anyway.

Fwiw, no-one has called Meerov alt-right. but that he's spouting the talking points of the alt-right. The alt-right have been very, very clever at disseminating their message and the complete non-issues they have been riding the wave of - discrimination against white people, white men in particular, straight people - have now made their way into the mainstream and are being picked up by people outside of their ideological bubble.If you can't tell when you're being manipulated, then you have a problem.

Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
Offline
Joined: 14-01-04
Apr 26 2018 14:25
Mike Harman wrote:
What would you do if a white, jewish journalist from the Mail or Times turned up at an ACG meeting?

The fact that you have to ask such a ridiculous question shows the patent idiocy of this kind of politics. You know the answer to this but feel free to insult, as is your style. I could also ask you how you'd feel if a BME boss turned up to any meeting you were at? I would hope and expect you've not yet gone quite so far up the arse of identity politics to think that was okay.

Point is, BME only meetings is no issue and can be a good, sometimes necessary thing. But segregating what is a mixed communal space is reactionary bollocks.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 26 2018 14:28
Serge Forward wrote:
however, the vitriol he's received in this thread, and referring to him as 'alt-right',

Who has done that?

I'll skip over the next bit of your post where you have a go at me (although I must say in general I'm concerned about the fact you think it's more important to support someone who it seems has never met a single black person, who thinks that most black people and "color people" are antiwhite racists, and are more racist than white people, who is making up and repeating nonsense about black racists demanding white workers be removed from factories because they don't feel safe, than supporting those arguing against him and trying to point out that white racists are bigger problem)

But I will address your next comment where you contradict yourself:

Quote:
On the issue of BME people holding meetings for BME people, I cannot see how any libertarian communist could have an issue with that as any oppressed group needs to self-organise.

Exactly, this is basically the point all of us are making to meerov.

Quote:
However, if it were the case that white or Jewish people were being evicted from a mixed communal space, then this smacks of reverse segregationism, more in the vein of Louis Farrakhan, and sure to play into the hands of the far right. Any serious anarchist communist should give that kind of nonsense short shrift. I do realise segregationism has long been an issue in the US but people who claim to be revolutionaries really shouldn't be supporting that kind of thing.

now here what is it you are referring to? The only concrete examples the journalist gives 2, which are problematic in that they don't specify dates, times or specifics about what happened. The events are also not verified by anyone else, there are numerous other factual inaccuracies and outright lies in the article (like saying that "Islamist" is now a protected characteristic like religious belief). So the 2 examples he gives are that:
– one time one person told him to "get out"
– on one occasion black students were due to hold a meeting at a student centre (and there are specifics but it seems like there were still white students present so they asked them to leave)

How in your view is one person telling a journalist to leave something that Farrakhan would do? (Especially as the photos of demonstrations I have seen, from a year before when the journalist is talking about, are multiracial demonstrations) I've certainly seen white anarchists do a lot worse to journalists (like in Greece I have seen journalists attacked, had fireworks thrown at them etc)

and on the second point, if you think black people should be able to meet and organise autonomously, then how on earth do you think they can do this if white people won't leave the room?

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 26 2018 14:30

Meerov, I challenged you to provide evidence backing up the racist bullshit you have been posting, for example your claim that black racists have demanded that white workers leave factories because they made them feel unsafe.

However you have responded:

meerov21 wrote:
I see no point in commenting on the words of such a person.

we did not set up this website for people to post racist lies, so if you do not give evidence for your completely false claims, then you're going to get banned

Mike Harman
Offline
Joined: 7-02-06
Apr 26 2018 14:44
Serge Forward wrote:
Mike Harman wrote:
What would you do if a white, jewish journalist from the Mail or Times turned up at an ACG meeting?

The fact that you have to ask such a ridiculous question shows the patent idiocy of this kind of politics. You know the answer to this but feel free to insult, as is your style. I could also ask you how you'd feel if a BME boss turned up to any meeting you were at? I would hope and expect you've not yet gone quite so far up the arse of identity politics to think that was okay.

But you said:

Serge Forward wrote:
However, if it were the case that white or Jewish people were being evicted from a mixed communal space

Are you aware of this happening? If not then why insist on such an outlandish hypothetical as the basis of discussion?

Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
Offline
Joined: 14-01-04
Apr 26 2018 14:49
Steven. wrote:
if you think black people should be able to meet and organise autonomously, then how on earth do you think they can do this if white people won't leave the room?

As I understood it, we're not talking about white people leaving the room so a BME meeting can take place, we're talking about segregating a whole student centre to make some kind of radical point. Although Fleur (and now Mike Harmon) says it didn't happen. If that's the case, fair enough. Did it or didn't it happen?

Quote:
"color people"

You know, I took that as a language limitation on Meerov's part. After all, calling someone "coloured" (offensive) and referring to "people of colour" (not offensive) would probably be quite confusing to a person whose first language isn't English. Point well scored though.

Uncreative's picture
Uncreative
Offline
Joined: 11-10-09
Apr 26 2018 14:52
Serge Forward wrote:
referring to him as 'alt-right', etc, for being critical of certain elements of anti-oppression politics

Just to repeat, literally no one has said Meerov is alt right.

Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
Offline
Joined: 14-01-04
Apr 26 2018 14:57

No, just compared to alt-right, likened to alt-right, sounds like alt-right - it's called guilt by association.

Fleur
Online
Joined: 21-02-12
Apr 26 2018 15:23

Are we supposed to not point out that he's using alt-right talking points? That he's been duped (like a lot of people have) by the mainstream normalization of right wing moral panics? Not bother mentioning it because Meerov's feelings are more important than getting over the wider point that anti-white discrimination is largely a fiction of the far right? Most people don't even realize where these things come from, so many mainstream column inches and airtime has been given over to them (at least in the US, I can't be bothered much with UK news anymore.) You may call it guilt by association, someone else may think it's educating him. Are we not supposed to challenge people talking far-right nonsense? He probably hasn't the faintest idea where these arguments come from, he's just been suckered.

Fleur
Online
Joined: 21-02-12
Apr 26 2018 15:26

Fwiw though, the man did tell me to kill myself early on in the thread, so I really don't give a shit about Meerov's feelings.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 26 2018 15:31
Serge Forward wrote:
Steven. wrote:
if you think black people should be able to meet and organise autonomously, then how on earth do you think they can do this if white people won't leave the room?

As I understood it, we're not talking about white people leaving the room so a BME meeting can take place, we're talking about segregating a whole student centre to make some kind of radical point. Although Fleur (and now Mike Harmon) says it didn't happen. If that's the case, fair enough. Did it or didn't it happen?

SF, this is the entire point. Meerov is making stuff up and lying. I challenged him above to provide evidence that this happened, and he responded saying he would not engage with me. He also claimed that black workers have demanded white workers leave the factory because they made them feel "unsafe", he also said that black people were more racist than white people, which is another fabrication.

Now I know that you like your image as being someone who is hard on "identity politics". But how does that mean that making up racist lies is fine? And that pointing out racist lies is bad?

Quote:
Quote:
"color people"

You know, I took that as a language limitation on Meerov's part. After all, calling someone "coloured" (offensive) and referring to "people of colour" (not offensive) would probably be quite confusing to a person whose first language isn't English. Point well scored though.

I thought it may have been a language issue, which is why I specifically asked him what he meant by it. He responded with this:

Meerov wrote:
Steven. wrote:
What is a "color" worker?

Anyone who thinks he's not white and has a negative attitude towards white.

which is an extremely weird response, and doesn't exactly make his comment any better, as he specifically says that all non-white people have "negative" attitudes towards whites

Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
Offline
Joined: 14-01-04
Apr 26 2018 15:32
Quote:
You may call it guilt by association, someone else may think it's educating him.

Well, this whole thread has been an education.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 26 2018 15:35
Serge Forward wrote:
No, just compared to alt-right, likened to alt-right, sounds like alt-right - it's called guilt by association.

so okay you admit that no one called him "alt right" and you made that up.

No one compared or likened him to it either, so you are making that up as well. What I and others said was that he is repeating alt right talking points, which is factually correct, as anti-white racism is a massive concern of the alt right. If you weren't aware of this, take a look at a search engine: https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&ei=FfHhWsbaKYG9jwSF7YLADA&q=%22anti-white+racism%22+site%3ABreitbart.com&oq=%22anti-white+racism%22+site%3ABreitbart.com&gs_l=psy-ab.3...7035.10420.0.13823.9.4.0.0.0.0.205.489.0j2j1.3.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..6.0.0....0.bReKG2GPdwU

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 26 2018 15:37
Serge Forward wrote:
Quote:
You may call it guilt by association, someone else may think it's educating him.

Well, this whole thread has been an education.

well maybe you could educate us then. If Meerov is refusing to, could you tell us specifics about all the incidents where black workers have demanded whites be removed from their factories? Or where black students have demanded the removal of all whites and jews from the campus?

It's 2018 so there should be plenty of camera phone footage of all of this anti-white ethnic cleansing

Spikymike
Offline
Joined: 6-01-07
Apr 26 2018 15:59

Admin changing the title of this was probably overstepping the mark but frankly meerov21 has not made out any well documented or well argued case for his accusations of a pervasive anti-white or anti-jewish style 'racism' on the back of some at best, even if they were true, isolated incidents. meerov21 makes some reasonable arguments on other discussion threads but seems to have gone astray with this one. Problems there may be with much of what passes as 'identity politics' as it is practiced in the USA and especially in academic circles but meerov21 hasn't made a sensible argument against that here. This discussion thread seems to have run it's course now and is just going round in circles with unnecessary personal accusations from both sides. Time to call it a day perhaps.

Mike Harman
Offline
Joined: 7-02-06
Apr 26 2018 16:00

@Serge. So if you ejected a right wing journalist, then they wrote a huge hit piece in the Times about how the ACG ejects white jewish people from their meetings, called it an example of cultural marxism, privilege politics, anti-white racism and call-out culture, you might be a bit annoyed. Then when people pointed out that it was completely fabricated and made-up to serve a far right agenda, those people were in turn called Stalinists, Maoists, shutting down debate from anyone who doesn't agree with the party line etc. that might also be a bit annoying?

With minimal reading comprehension it's quite clear from the opening post what the claim vs. reality is:

meerov's journo mate wrote:
At other colleges, all the Whites were asked to leave the student center to grant the people of color a safe space....

First of all meerov's journo mate does not claim to have witnessed this, they're anecdotally referring to something that happened at other colleges.

If you have a BME meeting in a student centre, it's quite possible to phrase this as 'all the Whites were asked to leave the student center to grant the people of color a safe space" - even if no-one was actually even asked to leave for any of the meetings, but it was just advertised as a BME meeting.

And this happens quite regularly. Here's an example, ironically in WaPo which is not averse to safe space moral panics, debunking just one such apocryphal tale:

WaPo wrote:
The idea of designated or safe spaces for specific groups of people has been the subject of debate.

While some see it as a way for traditionally underrepresented students to feel a sense of belongingness, others believe that however well-intentioned, it’s a regressive step back to segregation.

A fellow student, Cole Carnick, slammed Students4Justice in a column in the Michigan Review, a campus publication, and called the demand “unprincipled.”

“The same organization that criticizes the University for failing to create ‘an environment that engages in diversity, equity and inclusion,’ is calling upon the University to undermine these ideals by facilitating a sort of de facto segregation? One where space and resources are designated for students based solely on the color of their skin?” Carnick said, adding later: “If Students4Justice genuinely wants to foster an inclusive and diverse campus, then it would be best to avoid propositions that seek to divide and separate students. The ugly history of racially designated public spaces should remain in the past — revisiting it would only fulfill the dreams of our most depraved members of society.”

Lakyrra Magee, a member of Students4Justice, said the purpose behind creating a list of demands was to highlight how activism by students of color has changed the institution.

“People just have taken it however they want,” Magee said. “They’re changing the conversation to whatever they want it to be and not the rest of the demand.”

Both Garg and Magee said the group has received hateful messages since news outlets reported on their demand for a space for minority students. Some called them the n-word and told them to kill themselves, said Magee, a junior.

“We’re called Nazis, and that’s interesting to hear, and the equivalent of the KKK,” said Garg, a first-year student. “It’s just so strange.”

Somewhat-similar efforts to create these spaces at other schools have attracted controversy. The University of Connecticut, for instance, announced a living community specifically for black male students. Moraine Valley Community College outside Chicago announced a course specifically for black students and later walked back its plans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/03/01/a-group-demanded-a-space-for-students-of-color-now-they-say-theyre-being-called-racists/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5374faab2190

Here's Campus Reform, which campaigns against liberal bias and discrimination against conservatives, aghast that there could be a space for queer people of color at the University of Minnesota: https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9500

Or the Atlantic making similar claims to Meerov:

The Atlantic wrote:
Then the idea becomes that we physicalize this notion of safe space and start asking white people to leave, or for example, at was it Oberlin? Where the black students had safe spaces designated all over campus where they could be safe from the incessant racism aimed at them by whites.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/a-columbia-professors-critique-of-campus-politics/532335/

Or Spiked's Frank Furedi in the LA Times:

LA Times wrote:
Safe space activism stems primarily from the separatist impulses associated with the politics of identity, already rampant on campus. For some individuals, the attraction of a safe space is that it insulates them from not just hostility, but the views of people who are not like them. Students' frequent demand for protection from uncomfortable ideas on campus — such as so-called trigger warnings — is now paralleled by calls to be physically separated too. Groups contend that their well-being depends on living with their own kind.

In 2015 and 2016, students of color at many colleges called for segregated safe spaces. For example, among the 14-page list of demands made by a group of Oberlin students was that "spaces throughout the Oberlin College campus be designated as a safe space for Africana identifying students."

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-furedi-safe-space-20170105-story.html

Since you've said you agree with autonomous organising and that it's fine, then presumably you can see that these articles are trying to portray quite normal autonomous meetings by black students as rampant separatism? Spiked is essentially an entire industry dedicated to spreading this bollocks. Their university free speech index downgrades for the existence of any bullying and harassment policy, which applies to nearly everywhere so they can give every university low free speech ratings.

This doesn't mean there isn't someone somewhere that's separatist, but for example two of these articles rely on a paraphrase of a letter from students at Oberlin which is not reproduced - and even if someone wrote that they want permanent physical safe spaces on campus (as opposed to the ability to hold autonomous meetings) that doesn't mean it was a demand of lots of students or that any actual white people got forced out of communal spaces, or that they weren't arguing for additional spaces rather than ejecting people from existing ones.

Yet Furedi says they were demanded (and the administrators denied the demands), and the Atlantic says it actually happened - the two stories actually contradict each other factually, one inflating the claims of the other. It seems quite likely that meerov's journo mate in turn further inflated those claims made about Oberlin from Furedi, a step removed into those safe spaces being created (as opposed to demanded), then a step further again into white students being kicked out of the entire student centre permanently.

Whereas far-right organising on American campuses - posters, leaflets, intimidation of black students, murders by neo-nazi students on US campuses are well documented with quite a lot of examples.

Mike Harman
Offline
Joined: 7-02-06
Apr 26 2018 16:25

Since we're talking about alt-right fabrications, another one would be the use of South Africa's announced (but not implemented) land reforms to spread the idea that there is a genocide of white people in South Africa. Katie Hopkins and several other fash journalists did an entire tour of the country (with an Afrikaner far right organisation in Hopkins case I think) to try to prove this.

I wrote about it shortly after it was announced: https://libcom.org/news/real-land-expropriation-movement-south-africa-03032018 More recent post from Abahlali baseMjondolo http://abahlali.org/node/16424/

The existence of some violent burglaries on farms (not exactly unique to South Africa), and the vague possibility that some freehold agribusiness owners might get converted to a leasehold are the only truth in this. If you actually look at South Africa it's members of Abahlali baseMjondolo getting evicted, arrested, tortured and assassinated, and in some cases mass violence against Nigerian immigrants. Instead the international attention has been on an entirely fabricated 'white genocide' cooked up from some burglaries and a very weak populist measure (about as radical as Corbyn nationalising the national grid).

Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
Offline
Joined: 14-01-04
Apr 26 2018 16:44
Spikymike wrote:
Admin changing the title of this was probably overstepping the mark but frankly meerov21 has not made out any well documented or well argued case for his accusations of a pervasive anti-white or anti-jewish style 'racism' on the back of some at best, even if they were true, isolated incidents. meerov21 makes some reasonable arguments on other discussion threads but seems to have gone astray with this one. Problems there may be with much of what passes as 'identity politics' as it is practiced in the USA and especially in academic circles but meerov21 hasn't made a sensible argument against that here. This discussion thread seems to have run it's course now and is just going round in circles with unnecessary personal accusations from both sides. Time to call it a day perhaps.

And that's exactly the right tone for this discussion.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 26 2018 17:38
Serge Forward wrote:
And that's exactly the right tone for this discussion.

So no word on your support for someone inventing claims of racist black people demanding the segregation of factories and universities?

R Totale's picture
R Totale
Offline
Joined: 15-02-18
Apr 26 2018 17:41
meerov21 wrote:
jolasmo
Have you ever fought for the uprising of the Commune against the government, or for the Autonomous self-government of labour collectives?

Your question is not directly related to the topic of discussion, but the answer is Yes. I participated in a strike of miners near the house of the government of Russia, I within six months helped the workers who seized machine-building plant in the city of Yasnogorsk and which were attacked by police, I tried to organize a network of the working resistance during a number of years, connecting fighting Autonomous collectives at factories in Rostov, Vyborg, Moscow.

Is it just me, or does anyone else really, really wish that meerov would write more about this stuff, or indeed generally about how the Russian or Israeli working class is composed and divided, and what attempts are made to overcome those divides, and that that would be a much, much more interesting topic of conversation than "hey everyone, here's a copy and paste of this week's column from Russian Richard Littlejohn"? Just a thought, like.

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
Offline
Joined: 5-10-07
Apr 26 2018 17:46

FWIW, I think early on this thread people - certainly I tried to - made an attempt to bring Meerov around through fairly soft-handed logic and argument. In response, he's gotten increasingly outlandish and said increasingly questionable things.

I can't speak for the libcom admins but - years back anyway - the site had a reputation for being a bit of a boys club where some, let's say, less then well-thought-through positions on gender issues were bandied about on the forums.

I think it's a credit to the admins that more than one of them have stepped in to call Meerov out on his shit. Alt-right talking points (and, goddammit, that's exactly what they are) should have no place on a communist forum. It needs to be made clear to any others who may stumble upon this conversation - I'm not talking about Meerov here, as as best I can tell, he's a lost cause - that that sort of racist bollocks won't be tolerated.

EDITED to add: Okay, maybe people gave Meerov short shrift on this particular thread, but that's after trying to make more reasoned arguments on that other similar thread he started.

meerov21
Offline
Joined: 14-08-13
Apr 26 2018 18:32

I have used here the example of statements against whites and Jews, based on statements by an elderly and well-known journalist (emigrant) about people who did not want to see Jews and whites at the University. I also added that people have the right to unite on the basis of ethnic principle, this is their right, but no one gives them the right to demand to throw Jews or whites out of a public place, for example from the territory of the University or the factory.

I did not mean that someone was in favor of cleaning the factory from whites and Jews, mention of the factory was needed to designate a public place. My English is obviously imperfect, and certainly could have been misunderstood in this matter.

But the example with the University was given in a note by Dorfman.

It turns out that the fact of discussing an article written by the Jews, who claimed to have been verbally attacked by anti-Semitic, is causa for insults and threats to ban. Cool.wink

R Totale's picture
R Totale
Offline
Joined: 15-02-18
Apr 26 2018 19:31
meerov21 wrote:
It turns out that the fact of discussing an article written by the Jews, who claimed to have been verbally attacked by anti-Semitic, is causa for insults and threats to ban. Cool.;)

I don't want to be too hard on you here, because I appreciate there's a language barrier, but I am fairly confident that there has not been any kind of meeting or collective vote where The Jews decided to collectively endorse that one article. That said, it is interesting how even those people who announce that they're the most determined to break away from all notions of identity politics still seem to end up invoking it when it suits them. Ho him.

Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
Offline
Joined: 29-04-08
Apr 26 2018 20:06

Man. Maybe it's time for the forums to finally be shuttered. It's now pretty much degenerated into 2 people constantly repeating right-wing talking points and 4 people refuting them. Is this the Indymedia phase of the libcom forums?

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 26 2018 20:55
meerov21 wrote:
I have used here the example of statements against whites and Jews

apart from the one comment from one individual saying Israelis were murderers, there were no general statements given about whites or Jews. They just told one person who happened to be white and Jewish to get out.

Quote:
based on statements by an elderly and well-known journalist (emigrant) about people who did not want to see Jews and whites at the University

this is a lie – a racist lie, which you keep repeating.

This is a photograph of one of those Halloween demonstrations at Yale against racism:

There are more photographs and videos here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/allegations-racism-yale-culminated-1000-marching-justice-campus/story?id=35105491

As you can see a good number of the participants are white.

Quote:
I did not mean that someone was in favor of cleaning the factory from whites and Jews, mention of the factory was needed to designate a public place. My English is obviously imperfect, and certainly could have been misunderstood in this matter.

You said this:

Quote:
The problem arises when they demand that people with a different skin color leave the public space (factory or university, because in the presence of people with a different skin color "they do not feel safe").

your use of the word "when" here (and not "if") means you are saying that this happened. However as you admit this never happened. So why would you even use this completely fake hypothetical example?

Quote:
But the example with the University was given in a note by Dorfman.

No, he only gives the example of a student Centre, not a university. And if black students were due to meet there, as you acknowledge is their right, then they cannot do that if white people refuse to leave, so they will need to ask the white people to leave (although it is worth noting that there is no evidence even that this happened as the article gives no specifics)

Quote:
It turns out that the fact of discussing an article written by the Jews, who claimed to have been verbally attacked by anti-Semitic, is causa for insults and threats to ban. Cool.;)

that's hilarious, I thought you didn't agree with identity politics? Would you like a "safe space" just to be with people of your own ethnicity?