Brad Spangler:Agorism is a form of Libertarian Socialism
Oct 16 2009 12:53
Hey all, I've recently been immersed into an argument with Anarchists over at flag.blackened.net fora on Brad Spangler's assertions that Agorism is a form of LibSoc (sources).
I'd like to hear what other Lib.Communists think, as my position on this is being attacked by other anarchists for presumably being inconsistent/incomplete on the issue of Private Property VS Possession.
I'm not the most knowledgeable of LibComs so I'd appreciate some feedback on this and the flag.blackened discussion .
Oct 16 2009 22:07
#2
Thanks Anarcho.
Insane lulz at "Marxo-Capitalism" btw 
Feb 15 2010 07:31
#3
While agreeing on most of your ideas, Anarcho, I think An-Cap is not Marxo-Capitalism. Many of them reject voting and seizing political power.
Rothbard advocates privatization, arguing that private owner will have the incentive to protect it. Well, let's say if one day the State disappear, who will appropriate the sweatshops, the mines, the roads, the rivers, the grazing lands, the fields the fishing and hunting grounds, in short, the means of production?
The entrepreneurs, said the An-Cap. Well then, we will have what Bob Black calls workplace's tyranny, with automatons working at the behest of a boss.
Those entrepeneurs think themselves as deserving to be master in an Aristotlean sense:
"For that which can foresee by the exercise of mind is by nature intended to be lord and master, and that which can with its body give effect to such foresight is a subject, and by nature a slave; hence master and slave have the same interest." (Politics I.2)
Intellectual thinkers using theoretical knowledge to lead the manual workers who do the practical activities.
What will we have? A technocracy (the word "meritocracy," rule by merits, is stupid and nonsensical, we are all ignorance, only in different disciplines), what exactly what Bakunin criticized Marx for: "For this – the organization and the rule of the new society by socialist savants – is the worst of all despotic governments!"
Almost all propertarian libertarians thought there is nothing wrong with the right of inheritance. They vehemently oppose inheritance tax. They will bequest the wealth they amass to their children, who will be indoctrinated so as to rule over their peers from working class families tomorrow. That is nepotism.
In short, An-Cap should be properly called nepotistic technocracy.
Feb 15 2010 21:10
#4
Churl Firebeck wrote:
While agreeing on most of your ideas, Anarcho, I think An-Cap is not Marxo-Capitalism. Many of them reject voting and seizing political power.
Not the founder, not Rothbard. He was quite clear on the need for political action... The last act of the state would be, contra Engels, privatisation.
Churl Firebeck wrote:
In short, An-Cap should be properly called nepotistic technocracy.
Oh, I'm not sure any name really fits it... one thing is sure, of course, it cannot be called anarchism!
In-so-far as it is "anarcho"-capitalist, it cannot be -- the founder of Agorism was pretty much clear that he agreed with Rothbard on most things. Rothbard was a propertarian and authoritarian.
Of course, if you purge agorism of all the "anarcho"-capitalist rubbish then you could have something like Tucker's individualist anarchism or, maybe, Proudhon's mutualism. In which case, why call it "Agorism"?
At some stage I'm going to blog on Agorism -- its founder seems to think in terms of individuals and groups of individuals renting the means of production from the owners. As such, it is hard to really stop the difference between it and capitalism -- other than workers are not being directly bossed about but have to pay rent and interest. I have a few notes, but no time to get them ready.
Relevant material can be found in section I.3.3 (on socialisation) of An Anarchist FAQ. This blog is of interest:
http://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/socialisation-capitalisms-and-the-weekly-worker
A private-property system without wage-labour would not be capitalism, true, but it would not be any form of anarchism if it is based on rent and interest. What to call it? That is the tricky part...
and Spangler has been trying this line for a while:
http://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/quoting-marxo-capitalists-out-context
Also of note: The Economics of Anarchy plus:
http://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/reply-to-capitalist-praise-for-anarcho-syndicalism
and
http://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/an-anarchist-critique-of-anarcho-statism
ultimately, if Spangler is so concerned about being a libertarian socialist he should dump Rothbard and "Austrian economics" -- then we can talk...