Can anarchism work? questions.

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I'm trying to imagine an anarchistic world that would work but I just can't see it lasting. here are some questions that come to mind:

Didn't humanity start out as an anarchy and progressively become what it is today? wouldn't the same process recur if anarchy would be achieved today?

The first group to unite in an anarchistic environment will have an enormous advantage over the individual. how do you prevent that from happening?

Total freedom will produce a situation in which the strong can rule the weak, so some rules are necessary? what are they? who enforces them? when does enforcing them become depriving freedom?

when a conflict between freedom of two individuals occurs who resolves it? which individuals freedom is more important? who decides which value is good or bad?

Isn't complete anarchy realistic only in an un-realistic world where all people have the same values exactly?

Any answer will be appreciated. suggested reading or links which refer to the questions above will be appreciated as well.

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Quote:
Didn't humanity start out as an anarchy and progressively become what it is today? wouldn't the same process recur if anarchy would be achieved today?

Humanity started out as apes

Quote:
The first group to unite in an anarchistic environment will have an enormous advantage over the individual. how do you prevent that from happening?

anarchism is about organisatin why whould we want to prevent people uniting, one of the many problems we have is that people are not united enough.

Quote:
Total freedom will produce a situation in which the strong can rule the weak, so some rules are necessary? what are they? who enforces them? when does enforcing them become depriving freedom?

We will need rules on things like driving, how to build things, etc, i cant tell you what the rules will be though, the will be up to people to decide after teh revolution.

I think the most funderment principle is that you can do anything so long as doing so doesn't deprive someone else of there freedom to do what they want.

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when a conflict between freedom of two individuals occurs who resolves it? which individuals freedom is more important? who decides which value is good or bad?

that depends, as it is i cant awser this question there are to many variables.

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sn't complete anarchy realistic only in an un-realistic world where all people have the same values exactly?

no

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Any answer will be appreciated. suggested reading or links which refer to the questions above will be appreciated as well.

i havent read them but lots of people recommend

http://libcom.org/library/the-conquest-of-bread-peter-kropotkin

http://libcom.org/library/what-is-anarchism-alexander-berkman

you could also use the anarchist faq to look things up, but it is masive http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html

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Jonathan6655321 wrote:
The first group to unite in an anarchistic environment will have an enormous advantage over the individual. how do you prevent that from happening?

the anarchists on this site are libertarian communists, so we don't see anarchism as 'everyone do what you like with no rules or organisation', but a highly organised society structured to maximise freedom (both freedom of action and freedom from want). you're right, that in the absense of organisation you get a free-for-all like Somalia, but we'd advocate a system of organisation based on direct democracy, probably using federated councils and mandated, recallable delegates to ensure there is a cohesive, inclusive society that is also egalitarian and democratic.

Joined: 24-12-08
Quote:
Didn't humanity start out as an anarchy and progressively become what it is today?

Humanity started out superstitious and ignorant, with no systematic understanding of how society works and what dangers need to be guarded against.

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The first group to unite in an anarchistic environment will have an enormous advantage over the individual.

Have everyone unite as much as possible.

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some rules are necessary? what are they? who enforces them? when does enforcing them become depriving freedom?

Yes they are, they are enforced either as prohibitions on violence, enforced by the threat of restraining communal violence in response, or shared agreements on how to arrange matters, enforced by the threat of others withdrawing co-operation. This becomes depriving freedom, either when shared arrangements are enforced by violence (which would be not anarchism but a sort of democratic authoritarianism), when the right to enforce becomes the specific privilege of one group (thus forming a proto-government) or when people are making unnecessarily many arrangements to micro-manage individual affairs (which can only really be countered by propagandising on behalf of diversity and pluralism).

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when a conflict between freedom of two individuals occurs who resolves it?

Either they separate and just live independently, or the community resolves it through something like a jury system.

Quote:
Isn't complete anarchy realistic only in an un-realistic world where all people have the same values exactly?

No. tongue

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"when a conflict between freedom of two individuals occurs who resolves it?"
We should hope that two mature individuals could resolve a conflict between themselves.

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Jonathan6655321 wrote:
I'm trying to imagine an anarchistic world that would work but I just can't see it lasting. here are some questions that come to mind:

Didn't humanity start out as an anarchy and progressively become what it is today? wouldn't the same process recur if anarchy would be achieved today?

The first group to unite in an anarchistic environment will have an enormous advantage over the individual. how do you prevent that from happening?

Total freedom will produce a situation in which the strong can rule the weak, so some rules are necessary? what are they? who enforces them? when does enforcing them become depriving freedom?

when a conflict between freedom of two individuals occurs who resolves it? which individuals freedom is more important? who decides which value is good or bad?

Isn't complete anarchy realistic only in an un-realistic world where all people have the same values exactly?

Any answer will be appreciated. suggested reading or links which refer to the questions above will be appreciated as well.

Anarchism is not a simple absence of laws. It is a society in which people are eqaul and work cooperatively to improve their lives. For an anarchist society to come about it would require a lot of work over time, it's not just going to suddenly appear Mad Max style.

Anarchist societies probably would have rules and laws but the difference would be that they would be decided upon by the people and their aim would be to protect the people rather than to control them.

In terms of values it depends what you mean. The basic value required to live in an anarchist society is a sense of solidarity with others. I imagine you're talking about religion, I don't see much of a place for religion myself because I think if people are sensible enough to dispense with capitalism they'll get rid of that too.

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I'll read the books suggested, and get a better understanding of anarchy.
surely some extreme changes have to occur in our world, too much injustice everywhere.

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IMO, it is irrelevant wether or not an 'anarchist utopia' could work. Summed up perfectly by Bakunin:
'By striving to do the impossible, man has achieved the possible. Those who do no more than they believe possible will never take a step forward.'
By striving toward a better world we can create a better world, regardless of wether or not it is the one we intended on creating.

User offline. Last seen 4 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
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The Anarchist FAQ (for all it's faults) is alway a really good place to start. The index is really nice because if you have a question you can just "jump" to that section?

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/

(just realized RG already mentioned this, but it's still got my vote...)

Also, and not to "toot my own horn", but I wrote up a short, easy-to-understand (in my opinion, anyway) pamphlet entitled "What is Libertarian Socialism?". If you PM your e-mail address, I'll gladly send it down your way:)

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Good little documentary short about the events in Barcelona during the civil war... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUig0lFHDDw

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Whether it could work or not is an irrelevance given that we will probably never again get to a point to try make it work.

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thegonzokid wrote:
Good little documentary short about the events in Barcelona during the civil war... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUig0lFHDDw

This from the 6 part BBC series done in the 70's or 80's. You can download the complete series from here.

Shouldn't you fuck off then weeler?

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To Alderson Warm Fork ,

Quote:
Humanity started out superstitious and ignorant, with no systematic understanding of how society works and what dangers need to be guarded against.

Humanity did not start out as superstitious and ignorant , If you are referring to early Homo Sapiens , just because they didn't have metallurgy , written language or urban structure does not mean they were not sophisticated. They were advanced in ways which we can only fathom , to be able to hunt , domesticate wild animals , and carry out the basic tasks of survival in the stone age would have required great intelligence and versatility. They had a connection with nature that could be argued to be telepathic and understood the workings of the cosmos as in the Dogon tribe of Africa. We need to move away from this ignorant assumption that technologically primitive people are automatically by definition ignorant. It has been shown through archaeological evidence that some ancient peoples abandoned urban organistaion through choice to revert to a nomadic life in nature.

I think we can learn a lot from ancient peoples and the way in which they lived prior to the 'Takers' taking over the show. People left to their own devices tended to organise into sophisticates social structures such as Brehon law in Ireland which conferred equal rights to Women and an anarchist way of life which lasted from thousands of years ago to about six hundred years ago.

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Oh and Radicalgraffiti humans started out as hominids not apes.

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I think you have to recall Kropotkin suggesting that anarchists are not waiting for the revolution to start, that it has already started and that it is an ongoing thing. Really I don't see a cut off point where you can say we now have an anarchist society. That's looking in utopian terms which often negate reality and practicality. I see anarchism as a model for striving to get rid of systems which are inherently and morally corrupt and replacing them with agreed models which will need to be amended as and when. I see this as taking place on many levels but often it is relegated to 'politics' as if it didn't apply to the rest of culture (and there's an important lesson in that in terms of why anarchism is marginalised).

Anyone who wants a society where everyone agrees is going to get kicked up the arse! Anarchism is a striving, mutating and beautiful virus not a wet liberal fantasy.

Anarchism has been proven not to be an ideal as evidenced in the field by the anarchists of Catalonia or the Makhnovists in the Ukraine (the Zapatistas might also be included here though they are not anarchists per se) but since it's 'peak' anarchism (by which I mean anarchist-communism) was driven ruthlessly underground, and its credo -confused by ignorance and by intention with assorted Marxisms and self-appointed martyrs ever since- has long been the brunt of propagandists and petty idealists who think it 'can't work' because it isn't happening 'now'.

Certain conditions are necessary for anarchism to occur on the large scale and that is what anarchists organise towards. The revolution in Spain could not have happened if organisation had not been ongoing for years beforehand to generate the conditions necessary. The failure of the anarchists in the 1905 revolution in Russia was largely down to disorganisation.

But to keep on subject - I don't think it's useful to speculate on how humanity started out. True Columbus and other genocidists noted that the indigenous societies they encountered were friendly and not competitive. Although non-capitalist there was still patriarchy etc. I think ideas appear in different places and times when conditions allow. Anarchism is a step on from communism which was a step on from socialism .

Again speculations on social constructs in an anarchist society will be entirely relative. Direct democracy means that people will create understandings (laws) on matters relevant to their own position and they may or may not have to enforce these decisions accordingly. If they do this may involved the use of 'police', 'courts' or 'prison' but this should not be confused with the horrendous institutions we have today.

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I agree with back2front, it is always just an ongoing thing and that is an odd question to ask in a way because you could ask the same thing of whether feudalism can work or capitalism, or tribal living. Each of these types as well as many others have been around for years and years and none have been perfect and there will never be such a thing as perfection and that's not bad since there will always be an awareness to make things better and better. And when it comes to something not working, people can find ways to make things work. When people ask whether anarchism can work it feels like they are viewing it as something in which it will just completely bottom out in a way and when it comes to improving equality, getting rid of hierarchies, and improving everyone's quality of life, it will always be an ongoing thing forever.