critique of "scientific" "utopian" socialism distinction

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TomChomsky
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Oct 14 2017 16:37
critique of "scientific" "utopian" socialism distinction

I came across a text which criticized in a very natural way, this distinction, but cannot seem to remember now, I need it for a project I am doing, if any one can provide me a text that deals with this topic, please link me.

Thank you.

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jondwhite
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Oct 14 2017 16:41

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm

Anarcho
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Oct 20 2017 20:49

Ironically, Marxism is just as utopian as those it criticised... the notion of central planning was always doomed to failure. Perhaps if Marx and Engels had written about it a bit more then they would have realised that.

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comrade_emma
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Oct 20 2017 21:09

But in marxist terminology that's not what utopianism means. Utopianism is imagining a specific society and then trying to bend the material world to that. The idea of central planning is just the logical conclusion of the negation of capitalism, of "the anarchy of production".

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Khawaga
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Oct 20 2017 22:10

In addition, with a planned economy Marx also meant a rational economy, i.e. not one geared towards the irrationality of making money and destroying people and planet.

You may be a close reader of Proudhon Anarcho, but what you accuse Marx of doing to him, you constantly and consistently do to Marx...

mn8
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Oct 31 2017 13:39

I would also be interested in a criticism of the distinction.

Do you recall any of the specific criticisms?

Marxism being 'unlikely' does not make it 'utopian' in Marx's sense. You're right that that's what the word should mean. Otherwise it is just a Marxist slur. The general use means that it tries to set off from some analysis of capitalism (Proudhon also used that), and then get to communism. Of course, Marxists have problems with many historical developments, so ultimately their communism is the same... Also 'central planning' means people imposing their vision of society!!

Anyway, I let the OP explain themselves.

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jondwhite
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Nov 1 2017 13:01

I too hope OP returns to elaborate.

hierarchy is chaos
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Nov 19 2017 14:36

http://bit.ly/2yqoD1m

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Craftwork
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Nov 19 2017 16:29

I suppose one of the problems with the 'utopian socialist' label is it leads communists to rather lazily overlook or simply dismiss the works of Owen, Saint-Simon or Fourier without engaging with them.

It also lumps together some radically different thinkers.
e.g.
Owen: writes about Factory legislation.
Fourier: writes about sexual relations between the planets. grin