Doesn't the left libertarian's position on, say, cigarette smoking play into the hands of capitalists?

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the croydonian anarchist's picture
the croydonian ...
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Aug 29 2011 23:13

I think where problems do arise is when we can easily begin to say people should be allowed to mess their health up, but because of how it can be of detriment to others in the community, and hence 'anti social' at a stretch, then perhaps they should deal with the resulting negative health effects themselves instead of relying on the community etc. Now saying that is quite right wing, and obviously capitalist, as the main reason why we wouldn't want to deal with would be because its an un needed expensive. This is why its problematic. Now THAT is a 'play into the hands', or, like in laymans terms, a shit storm.

mons
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Sep 3 2011 11:26
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In terms of health damage btw per joint it's about 20 times as carcinogenic as cigarettes alone.

The BBC article doesn't say that I don't think. It says "that just three cannabis joints a day cause the same damage as 20 cigarettes", which would make it seven times worse, and it also says "Evidence shows that tar from cannabis cigarettes contains 50% more cancer causing carcinogens than tobacco." Also, the article doesn't mention that probably most weed-smokers don't blaze everyday, and there are things like vapes and bongs to make it safer - although I don't think they're very widely used at all. And there's no set amount of weed and baccy that goes in a joint, and it can vary hugely so that it could be you smoke joints which are several times less harmful than the BBC article's standard joint. Still, I didn't know that and it's pretty bad sad

I think one of the reasons we take so many drugs is to 'escape' and get free of stress, so in communism there'll be less demand for them cos people won't be so stressed.

I agree with RedHughs' post mainly, that it's not really for us to take a position on it. But the (de)criminalisation of drugs does affect people's lives a lot, and tbh I think legalising some drugs would be a class victory in that it would end the war on drugs, which is clearly anti-working class.

mons
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Sep 3 2011 11:20
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Isn't a lot of the romanticization of the drug trade by young people a result of absorbing conservative values? The drug dealer is the reflection of the capitalist; by idealizing the former aren't young people simply consistently applying right wing values? Another aspect of the drug dealer's romantic appeal likely has to do with his assumed frequent of violence, a patriarchal feature.

Is that based on your own experiences? I'm asking genuinely, cos it's very different to mine.
I think any romanticising of the drug trade that does exist comes from the fact it's illegal, and if anything it's, like Rob Ray said, more of a rebellious thing that young people like about it.

Also, and this is a more general question, do people see dealers as equivalent to capitalists? If they pay others to do work for them, then of course they're acting as capitalists. But lots don't, and often it's a few people working together on a fairly equal basis. Like Ellar said, people (apart from at the higher end of the process) deal because they're driven to it out of poverty. The correlation is so strong and direct based from what I've seen; pretty much all the people I know who deal do it because they have no money or job and/or owe money.