Im looking for some direction...

this shit should probably be snipped and moved to the "Left communism vs. anarchism" thread.

I think Illien was right to question such a strong term as 'opposed' in regard to relationships between anarchists and the ICC. As for the ICC's opposition to 'Official Anarchists', while lacking a definition of what this means, I think it can be inferred that this means the kind of formal anarchist organisations that 'unofficial anarchists' found themselves in conflict with during the wave of struggles of 1968 (don't ask me for specific instances, but I have in mind the various FAIs - Italy, Spain, France (different acronym there I know) which I think came in for criticism from more informal anarchist groupings at that time for quietude and guarding a handed down orthodoxy). I think the term 'proletarian milieu' - albeit coined by left communists - is a helpful one in indicating possible common ground occupied by certain anarchists and left communists (though perhaps the terminology is weighted too much in favour of those who defined it - is there a 'genealogy' of this term?). Also, to say anarchism 'offers no perspective for workers today' hardly implies the kind of opposition reserved for class enemies like the left of capital (from Trotskyism to Stalinism), more like disagreement, I'd say.

Changing the subject, I detect an element of 'bad blood' and prickliness in some of the exchanges on this thread. I have to say that while I'm bemused about some of the goings on in libcommunity, etc. regarding certain posters, I think fair points have been made here and they should be responded to at face value.

"proletarian milieu", if a real expression coined by the ICC to refer to revolutionaries, is the most ridiculous and elitist sounding thing ever and I would rather be called an 'official' anarchist leftist tbh.

I don't know Wellclose, to me it sounds like they're saying that even when anarchism comes close enough to having a "correct" position (as defined by the ICC), it's still just some useless relic of the past if not part of the "left-of-capital." Which is ironic coming from people whose political label refers to a particular tendency during the Russian revolution and who still cling to outdated Marxist jargon like "dictatorship of the proletariat."
That said, I want to reiterate that I have nothing against specific members of the ICC; some of the ones who post here are actually good people with decent (most times) politics. But this is about the ICC as an organization.

I take your point Vlad, but I quite like the 'proletarian' bit - I haven't been able to describe myself as an anarchist for years, but no more can I accept 'decadence' or other prescriptive stuff. Just a 'communist-with-a-small-c' with an eclectic approach, I suppose.

Could not agree more.

As to the question, most folks here disagree with the ICC on a whole host of issues, especially how they operate as an organisation. That said as others posters have pointed out there are some important points of agreement on certain issues.

but somewhere up there an ICC article does refer to anarchism as part of the left of capital. i agree with vlad on the 'opposition' term, or at least, if things really started moving in our political direction, there would come a point sooner rather than later when anarchists and left-communists would have to be in opposition, even if right now they recognize each other as being in the same ballpark (though frankly i think many many anarchists wouldn't welcome the ICC - wasn't there some issue at one of the anarchist bookfairs, where the ICC was not allowed to flog literature inside the tent (literally)?)

my own position is nicely summed up in this too:

at least, someone is going to have to explain decadence to me in terms my aging mind can understand.

The ICC have never been allowed to sell their literature at the London Anarchist bookfair AFAIK. Correctly so, as they OPPOSED anarchism.

tbf some of the literature that is peddled at anarcho bookfairs is sometimes far worse than anything produced by the ICC. I mean last year I saw The Black Fez Manifesto (Hakim Bey) at my local bookfair ffs.

I prefer red fezzes - 'Just like that!'

NO MORE comments on the ICC on this thread. Stop derailing it. Any more comments along this line will be deleted.

So, have you had a chance to look at any of those texts people have mentioned?

Steven, I hope this is not delated but I completely and utterly agree with you. I wish I had kept my mouth shut now!